Did Donna Reed's Miss Ellie have any redeeming features?

[Snarky Oracle!]

As I indicated in another, post, ratings indicate that whoever played Miss Ellie had an insignificant impact on
ratings.
Yes, BBG may have had more impact on storylines, and the audience's opinion, but in general,
people were watching for JR, Bobby, Sue Ellen and Pam

Well, the Number 1 Show in all of television wasn't about to see its ratings spontaneously crash into the toilet the moment the matriarch was re-cast. The negative impact was karmic, and the bad-faith damage it caused long-term and, as it turned out, the damage was permanent.

And we knew it at the time, from the very point that we first read that a new actress would be replacing BBG.

A comparable but lower profile scenario was the re-casting of Steven (and later Fallon) on DYNASTY after Al Corley and Pamela Sue Martin left the show. It was less-shocking, the decision to recast, but it was done with haste and arrogance and a cavalier disregard for their product as well as for the audience. (Aaron Spelling was caught on audiotape once sneering that the viewers "don't give a damn" if secondary characters are re-cast as long as the principals are still present...... Which isn't true at all). But as long as the ratings didn't collapse the instant Jack Coleman appeared on screen, then Spelling just cynically assumed no damage was accrued. So he just kept doing it.

I still say primetime TV can rarely tolerate re-casting core characters. It just rarely works (unlike daytime soaps). All the efforts to create an alternative universe in which the characters (and the audience) inhabit are undermined or even sabotaged by playing musical faces with the actors. The contrivance of a scripted drama feels even more contrived with this kind of unnecessary switcharoo.

Among other things, it feels desperate. And that never helps.

The releasing of Barbara Bel Geddes and hiring of Donna Reed was the bell tolling in the distance for DALLAS.

As I said, we understood that right away. As soon as the decision was made and hit the presses in June 1984.

What I didn't anticipate was that we'd be sitting here typing about it 40 years later.

 

[LMLDallas78]

What I didn't anticipate was that we'd be sitting here typing about it 40 years later.

It is quite remarkable isn't it? Quite wonderful.

Dallas viewers were very spoiled with the original and best cast.

Larry Hagman behaved very spoiled when he showed off about Donna Reed then pitied himself for being bored when his Patrick left.


With that combination certain recasts and dissaproved of stories would suffer from Dallas audiences as well as it's own stars criticisms and cause irreversible damage.

Soaps today get away with recasts all the time because it's the done thing and there's a large cast and characters can dip in and out and aren't terribly missed.

The dream was the main one for Dallas which it never totally recovered from. As Susan Howard said when asked how she felt about it, "Like there's no Santa Claus" and then on it's slow decline she said, "Dallas killed itself, Dallas drove the stake in it's own heart".

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Well, the Number 1 Show in all of television wasn't about to see its ratings spontaneously crash into the toilet the moment the matriarch was re-cast. The negative impact was karmic, and the bad-faith damage it caused long-term and, as it turned out, the damage was permanent.

And we knew it at the time, from the very point that we first read that a new actress would be replacing BBG.

A comparable but lower profile scenario was the re-casting of Steven (and later Fallon) on DYNASTY after Al Corley and Pamela Sue Martin left the show. It was less-shocking, the decision to recast, but it was done with haste and arrogance and a cavalier disregard for their product as well as for the audience. (Aaron Spelling was caught on audiotape once sneering that the viewers "don't give a damn" if secondary characters are re-cast as long as the principals are still present...... Which isn't true at all). But as long as the ratings didn't collapse the instant Jack Coleman appeared on screen, then Spelling just cynically assumed no damage was accrued. So he just kept doing it.

I still say primetime TV can rarely tolerate re-casting core characters. It just rarely works (unlike daytime soaps). All the efforts to create an alternative universe in which the characters (and the audience) inhabit are undermined or even sabotaged by playing musical faces with the actors. The contrivance of a scripted drama feels even more contrived with this kind of unnecessary switcharoo.

Among other things, it feels desperate. And that never helps.

The releasing of Barbara Bel Geddes and hiring of Donna Reed was the bell tolling in the distance for DALLAS.

As I said, we understood that right away. As soon as the decision was made and hit the presses in June 1984.

What I didn't anticipate was that we'd be sitting here typing about it 40 years later.

View attachment 51158

Dallas was a different situation than Dynasty

A one season recast of Miss Ellie didn't change the fundamental narrative.

What did change the fundamental narrative was the departure of Pam and Donna

Now the Barnes-Ewing feud was reduced to a minor annoyance, JR's rivalry with Bobby had to take other,
less impactful forms, Ray was mismatched with Jenna, and Cliff had no real solid interactions
without Pam. Add in the backlash from the way Bobby's return was written
and the decision to end the Steve Forrest as Jock return (which would have given BBG and Howard Keel a
decent storyline), the result was that Dallas was basically a different show after season 10.

I always thought that Miss Ellie was not well written after Jim Davis passed, and the nadir was that
Marple mysteries story.

 

[Mustard]

I always thought that Miss Ellie was not well written after Jim Davis passed

Really? I thought Miss Ellie's peak was Season 5 DVD, when bailing J.R. out of the awful financial mess that he had gotten himself and Ewing Oil into.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Really? I thought Miss Ellie's peak was Season 5 DVD, when bailing J.R. out of the awful financial mess that he had gotten himself and Ewing Oil into.

I think Jock was technically alive at that point. Sometimes it is difficult to separate actor from character at specific points.
I think BBG did the best she could with less than quality writing.
After the will was upheld, Miss Ellie seemed to flounder from nagging matriarch to helpless matriarch to
strangely inconsistent behavior. (ie giving half of Southfork to Clayton and potentially depriving Jock's sons of an inheritance if she predeceased Clayton),
and the absurd Marple storyline) Even her confrontation with McKay didn't resonate as plausibly powerful, at least not to me.
And suggesting Jock as a paragon of integrity while chastising JR and Bobby - She knew what Jock did, maybe not always,
but who does she think taught JR (and Bobby) about the oil business?
They didn't learn it in a vacuum.
Not BBG's fault by any means, just the writing

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

What I didn't anticipate was that we'd be sitting here typing about it 40 years later.

sadly, the producers only partially learned their lesson about recasts, flirting with the idea of Steve Forrest as Jock and Margaret Michaels as Pam, and, perhaps more significantly, permanently replacing the dynamic Eric Farlow, seen above quietly pulling the scene together in a typically thoughtful, understated performance as young Christopher

 

[Mustard]

Ironically, Margaret Michaels as Pam, once the bandages came off, would have been preferable to what they actually did.

 

[DallasFanForever]

Eric Farlow, seen above quietly pulling the scene together in a typically thoughtful, understated performance as young Christopher

Definitely happier times, when I all I had to hear about was eggs and toast compared to telling me you’re adopted every other episode.

Ironically, Margaret Michaels as Pam, once the bandages came off, would have been preferable to what they actually did.

I don’t want to agree with this but I think I have to. I’d take just about anything over the mummy storyline. At least, for once, a recast could’ve been justified due to the accident but I fear it would’ve been very short lived and Pam would have to be written out anyway. I can’t see the fans accepting anyone else in that role long term. No disrespect to Miss Michaels but I think we’d be sitting here all these years later talking about one more nail in the Dallas coffin.

 

[Mustard]

No disrespect to Miss Michaels but I think we’d be sitting here all these years later talking about one more nail in the Dallas coffin.

Maybe, but the decline would have been slower and less ugly, since the character of Pam was vital to so many dynamics on Dallas.

 

[Seaviewer]

And we knew it at the time, from the very point that we first read that a new actress would be replacing BBG.

Maybe you knew it, but, as I've said, my recollection is that the news of Donna Reed coming out of retirement - and into Dallas, no less - was received very warmly at first blush.

 

[DallasFanForever]

Maybe, but the decline would have been slower and less ugly, since the character of Pam was vital to so many dynamics on Dallas.

Removing Pam from the equation certainly hurt a lot of other characters. Cliff and Bobby were never the same without her. The Barnes-Ewing feud basically ceased to exist as well.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Maybe you knew it, but, as I've said, my recollection is that the news of Donna Reed coming out of retirement - and into Dallas, no less - was received very warmly at first blush.

I think that a lot of people were curious and supportive at first, because Donna Reed was such an iconic actress.
I can understand that a lot of people were BBG fans, but I also thought that Donna Reed was unfairly maligned, and that
she was treaty poorly by the show

 

[LMLDallas78]

The news that Donna Reed was appearing on Dallas was positive news here but once that appearance occurred the TV and newspaper critics had a field day.

It didn't help that some of it's own cast members were not impressed by her. I don't remember reading any press items about it at the time but if there was news of discontentment behind the scenes this would also have contributed to Donna failing in that role.

Bad feeling behind the scenes can alter viewers opinions so much so that we can often "see" that bad feeling bounce off the screen.

 

[southfork88]

I remember that in Italy the news of Donna Reed's arrival was accompanied by small photos showing this iconic actress with a captivating smile and a hairstyle only a little more ethereal than that of Barbara Bel Geddes. They weren't still stage photos, but photos that were a few years old.

While I was saddened by Barbara's departure, remember being excited by Donna's introduction.

After the replacement of Digger and Gary I began to understand that wasn't neurofibromatosis or ethanol that changed the characteristics of the characters, but it was a matter of replacement with new actors.

Unfortunarely when Donna arrived, her voice was dubbed by a new actress and nothing reminded me of Barbara anymore. But I was starting to appreciate her, even though she was so different, also because gossip began to circulate about her as she was snubbed within the group of actors, with the exception of Howard and Susan, both very supportive. And when Donna filed a lawsuit against Lorimar and died shortly thereafter, I was very saddened.

Even now I cannot tolerate such malice from some Dallas fans.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Donna Reed should have been brought in for one season to play Jenna's aunt, there in anticipation of her niece's doomed nuptials, stays for Jenna's kidnapping and trial, flirts with Clayton while Ellie is in a medical facility somewhere, and then exits after the marriage between Bobby & Jenna is called off and the contract issues with Bel Geddes are worked out.

 

[Toni]

Donna Reed should have been brought in for one season to play Jenna's aunt, there in anticipation of her niece's doomed nuptials, stays for Jenna's kidnapping and trial, flirts with Clayton while Ellie is in a medical facility somewhere, and then exits after the marriage between Bobby & Jenna is called off and the contract issues with Bel Geddes are worked out.

Or the mother of Jack & Jamie, divorced from Jason after pulling a Rebecca.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

I remember that in Italy the news of Donna Reed's arrival was accompanied by small photos showing this iconic actress with a captivating smile and a hairstyle only a little more ethereal than that of Barbara Bel Geddes. They weren't still stage photos, but photos that were a few years old.

While I was saddened by Barbara's departure, remember being excited by Donna's introduction.

After the replacement of Digger and Gary I began to understand that wasn't neurofibromatosis or ethanol that changed the characteristics of the characters, but it was a matter of replacement with new actors.

Unfortunarely when Donna arrived, her voice was dubbed by a new actress and nothing reminded me of Barbara anymore. But I was starting to appreciate her, even though she was so different, also because gossip began to circulate about her as she was snubbed within the group of actors, with the exception of Howard and Susan, both very supportive. And when Donna filed a lawsuit against Lorimar and died shortly thereafter, I was very saddened.

Even now I cannot tolerate such malice from some Dallas fans.

Agree. Donna Reed didn't fire/not renew BBG's contract. Amazing how fast BBG recovered well enough to resume the role.
They did say that she was leaving for health reasons, didn't they?
BBG was iconic in the role, and that is understandable,
but the mean-spirited criticism of Donna Reed is disgusting.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Agree. Donna Reed didn't fire/not renew BBG's contract. Amazing how fast BBG recovered well enough to resume the role.
They did say that she was leaving for health reasons, didn't they?
BBG was iconic in the role, and that is understandable,
but the mean-spirited criticism of Donna Reed is disgusting.

BBG was in the uncomfortable position of having to re-negotiate her contract at the same time she was requesting a reduced workweek (apparently, a temporary one, until she'd fully recovered from the heart surgery, she'd had a year before).

Lorimar executives apparently balked and threatened to bring in a new actress. BBG's agent seemed to think it was a ploy, so once Barbara realized they were serious, she got on the phone herself and tried to fix it. But it was too late -- a new actress had been hired.

So Bel Geddes was, in fact, fired.

Reportedly, Katzman loved the dithery, unthreatening Donna Reed. But Katzman and Paulsen quickly realized that Reed had been miscast. And you see that they quickly began cutting back her scenes almost immediately, because they weren't working. But there must have been miscommunication somewhere at Lorimar, because someone then extended Reed's contract from 1 year to 3 years.

Producers quietly approached Bel Geddes near the end of that season, presumably gave her the raise she'd requested, and now that another year had passed, BBG had recovered enough to commit to a full workload.

Donna Reed found out about her own firing on an airport tarmac in France. She sued, and although she likely would have lost (depending on the judge) Lorimar paid her a settlement to get the story out of the press.

Reed said that "she wasn't privy to" the idea that she'd been brought in as a temporary replacement for Miss Ellie, and I'm sure she wasn't, and that wasn't the original plan. Her assertions that Larry wasn't very nice to her are utterly believable (as were Dack Rambo's) because he wanted her gone. Her claims that she was deliberately given "monster lighting," because the cinematographer was told to by the producers, is nowhere in evidence.

Later, after Reed and her surviving relatives began making resentful comments about Barbara, the executives -- trying to avoid insulting Reed as she was already seen as their victim -- eventually gently piled on BBG and insisted that the former queen of Broadway had left DALLAS in a snooty misstep and then called and demanded her role back after "jealously watching another actress" in her part of Miss Ellie (even though Barbara hadn't watched the show that season, requesting tapes of it so she could catch up on the action before returning).

Both actresses were victimized.

I

 

[LMLDallas78]

Agree. Donna Reed didn't fire/not renew BBG's contract. Amazing how fast BBG recovered well enough to resume the role.
They did say that she was leaving for health reasons, didn't they?
BBG was iconic in the role, and that is understandable,
but the mean-spirited criticism of Donna Reed is disgusting.

Mean spirited criticism from among some/one of the people we love. Mr Hagman and probably others and that really saddens me as much as from media, TV and fans themselves.

that Larry wasn't very nice to her are utterly believable (as were Dack Rambo's)

Absolutely believable unfortunately on hearing the interview I've previously mentioned on here.

Didn't Larry approve of Dack Rambo either? Thought he only took the mickey out of his tight jeans?

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Mean spirited criticism from among some/one of the people we love. Mr Hagman and probably others and that really saddens me as much as from media, TV and fans themselves.


Absolutely believable unfortunately on hearing the interview I've previously mentioned on here.

Didn't Larry approve of Dack Rambo either? Thought he only took the mickey out of his tight jeans?

What happened with Dack Rambo? Not familiar with that story