Joan Crawford: The Warner Brothers Era

Snarky Oracle!

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ClassyCo said:


It's not 1906.

Joan has as many "birth years" as Pam Ewing. Crawford's birth year has been listed as 1903, 1904, 1905, 1906, and her preferred public date of 1908. And there's always "proof" that these dates are/aren't factual.

Judy Johns quotes her teacher, Nelle Sliter, "from Crawford as a client" for the date 23 March 1903 and time 10 pm.

Christina quotes another astrologer for 1904. If it is 1904, that would make Joan and Bette both Sun in Aries/Scorpio Rising/Moon in Gemini (which would make the two women even more similar than they already were).

So Crawford was even telling her astrologers two different things.

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Where's the Joan Crawford post-Silent pre-Box Office Poison MGM Era thread? I assume @ClassyCo has made one.

It's beside the post-TROG thread; it features only the "Dear Joan, We're Going to Scare You to Death" episode of SIXTH SENSE and a couple of her talks show appearances, but it's important to discuss these things.

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THE POST-TROG YEARS

I saw this when it first aired -- my mother announced that Joan Crawford was going to be on this series. (I'm not sure I knew who Crawford was in 1972, but I'd heard of her). And I remember her telling this little story to Gary Collins:

 

ClassyCo

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Where's the Joan Crawford post-Silent pre-Box Office Poison MGM Era thread? I assume @ClassyCo has made one.
Oh, so a nod to the numerous Marilyn Monroe threads I've started?


It's beside the post-TROG thread; it features only the "Dear Joan, We're Going to Scare You to Death" episode of SIXTH SENSE and a couple of her talks show appearances, but it's important to discuss these things.
Another nod.
 

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(Crazy that there were/are people who claim she couldn't act when you see the number of emotions in her eyes in a split second.)

Yes, I think one of the reasons some of Joan's performances have aged better than some of Bette's is that Bette's bitchy bravura tends to be one-note -- literally, one-note, in that Bette's vocal intonation tends to be high-pitched and nasally.

But Crawford knew, and recommended to other young actresses, that you need -- especially as a woman -- to drop your vocals down, at least here-and-there, to deeper levels in order to keep the audience listening; otherwise, 24/7 higher-pitched warbling will cause the viewer not to take you seriously.

It makes you seem more in-the-moment, more engaged. As a result, Bette Davis was often more-mannered and felt more on-automatic in a way Crawford was never really guilty.

This was also partly due to Joan's sense of being inferior to Bette (and Bette being in agreement). Joan was often trying to get Bette's approval and acknowledgement because Bette was one of the only women in Hollywood who had superior status over Joan, and Bette always rebuffed Joan for exactly the same reason.

But Bette was resting on her own laurels, sometimes phoning it in -- and phoning it in with that high-pitched nasal streak. While Crawford, goddess bless her, didn't do that.

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I recall reading someone suggest that Chaplin was unfortunate to live long enough to see his position challenged and possibly usurped by Buster Keaton; that while Chaplin's work is rooted in the Victorian era, Keaton's feels timeless and even modern.

I suppose Davis is lucky that she didn't live long enough for her and Joan's reputations reassessed.

Edit: Not that I think Davis' reputation has declined -- even if I personally think she's been overrated -- but I think Bette would be very resentful to find out Joan is no longer only seen as a glamorous dummy or a child beating monster. Davis seemed inordinately proud that her reputation was supreme. (She probably resented Hepburn's late career surge, but Kate always seemed blithely unaware of competition anyway.)
 
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Speaking of Mothers' Day, I was watching a Season 6 DALLAS clip a moment ago on Facebook with Miss Ellie yelling at JR in the Southfork living room, and then I looked to my right and Bel Geddes is sobbing away in I REMEMBER MAMA on the television.

I felt a bolt of electricity and a yin-yang paradoxical duality surge and then Donna Reed screamed in the background someplace.

It was like a sign to me that Crawford should have indeed played twins, maybe twice like Bette did, where Joan would slap Cliff Barnes yet another time as she did on SECRET STORM.

Otherwise, I don't know what any of this means.


https://www.tellytalk.net/threads/the-day-mommie-dearest-beat-up-cliff-barnes.13065/
 

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Just going to leave us hanging ...

Oh, I had a verbal fight with a "friend" and walked home from his house in a hyperventilating huff. Unusual, as I was an easygoing kid. (I promise). Maybe I subconsciously "knew" Joan had died and was upset about Mommie Dearest before Christina even wrote it. (Even though I believe every word of it).

Speaking of Mommie Dearest, I had another friend who gave her mother a copy of the book some 18 months later -- her mother being a Scorpio Rising/Moon in Aquarius like Joan Crawford. (But not as bad, although her daughter still hated her). She even had an old portrait of herself that her daughter thought "looks like Joan Crawford" (and it did). Her mother had a weird reaction to the Christmas gift, and she apparently never read it.

When I got away from that friendship, the daughter then re-wrote everything and decided that I had been the cause of all of her problems with all of her family members. Even though I'd had nothing to do with any of it, and she'd had all of those issues long before I was ever around, and she'd talked about it all the time. But women never lie, and their main tactic is never reputation destruction. I later found out she'd told anyone who'd listen that I was a hooker in NYC. Decades later, she contacted me through the highschool website (they always come back) and asked me if I was going to the 30th reunion. I responded nastily (kindness in dudes is viewed as weakness, as I'd learned by then) asking if she was still telling people that I was a hooker. She stammered on her keyboard, laughably tried to change the subject immediately, and tried to take the high ground. But when that didn't work, she gave up. And the conversation ended.

Bitch.

To be fair, in retrospect, I probably did look like a hooker.

My grandmother died the same day as Bette Davis, so I always recall that day for a few reasons.

Oh, no! I was at a friend's apartment whose outer wall looked out onto the pool when I heard about Davis' death. (It was still, technically, October 5 in the States).

Elizabeth Taylor died on Crawford's 108th birthday.

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Mary Tyler Moore died on my mother's penultimate birthday -- strange, as my mother had an absurd love-hate relationship with Mary Tyler Moore: when Mary was on DICK VAN DYKE, and early-MARY TYLER MOORE, she thought Mary was just adorable..... But something changed. Soon, no one could even mention Mary in my mother's presence without her stiffening up... One day, her mother -- my grandmother (the one who reminded me of a blend between Miss Ellie and Judith Anderson, whom she adored) -- asked me why my mother had such an issue with Mary Tyler Moore. I answered, with pubescent confidence, that when Mary Richards (a woman in her thirties) was revealed to not be a virgin, Mom had an indignant moralistic reaction from what she saw as a personal betrayal. I knew I was right, and I was right, even though Mom had never explained it... My grandmother, not a lascivious person nor prone to blue humor, didn't respond and only looked down at the table bemused (no doubt at her daughter's prudery, and the fact that her youngest grandson, still a mere whisp of a boy, had figured out my mother's ridiculous reasoning). Twenty years later, when mother learned that Mary was a vegan and an animal rights activist, Mom suddenly loved Mary Tyler Moore again, as if those two decades of seething contempt never happened.

Mom's tragic problem was that she never had any problems, and thus had to make them up.

Since you all asked.


Love is all around, no need to waste it...
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