GillesDenver
Telly Talk Dream Maker
Is Victoria Principal in the scene ?
Dallas Character The return of Mark Grayson.
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Toni
Maximum Member
Well there you are, you can either believe me or not!
John Beck dead in the shower wasn't the original season nine cliffhanger.
It was Ben Stivers reveal as Jock. So there you go.
I believe in you VTV, since we shared a bedroom in the Fletcher sanitarium, but if I were you I wouldn´t believe most people who write on YouTube, because they just wanna be "the one who knows what anybody else knows". I found one of those who happened to know someone who knew one of the house owners at the cul-de-sac, and as it seemed, they spent one year telling him/them everything about the show...
Toni
Maximum Member
Luke_Krebbs_Ewing
Telly Talk Champion
If you mean the scene with Ben & Miss Ellie, that was the original season nine cliffhanger then No, she's not.
Luke_Krebbs_Ewing
Telly Talk Champion
That scene was filmed to throw people off as Katzman only used part of it.
He spliced in footage of Patrick Duffy saying good morning & edited it to look that Pam had opened the door on Bobby in the shower.
GillesDenver
Telly Talk Dream Maker
No, I was talking about the scene that Toni spoke about.If you mean the scene with Ben & Miss Ellie, that was the original season nine cliffhanger then No, she's not.
Thank you ! And before she goes to the shower, does she wear the same nightgown than in the cliffhanger ?
Luke_Krebbs_Ewing
Telly Talk Champion
No, I was talking about the scene that Toni spoke about.
Thank you ! And before she goes to the shower, does she wear the same nightgown than in the cliffhanger ?
I would imagine so, then slips it off & shows John Beck her buoys!!
They're her buoys Gilles, always have been!
Toni
Maximum Member
Was she here starting to dream about Bobby?
Maybe she was a sleepwalker too...?
Obviously, it was NOT the same nightgown. Victoria said that she took one of her own nightgowns for shooting the cliffhanger scene so all we have to do is asking her which one was hers!! (Dare you all to do that...) I´d say it was the latter...
Toni
Maximum Member
Wouldn´t it have been FUN if she had been dreaming about Bobby for the last episodes of the Dream season? And, finally, that she had realized that it was her last months of life what she had been dreaming about...and that Bobby was actually alive? A kind of softer "awakening", so to say, and maybe giving clues to the viewers wouldn´t have been considered as much as the "betrayal" that so many thought the dream solution was...
Was she dreaming about Bobby Ewing too...?
Was she dreaming about Bobby Ewing too...?
Kenny Coyote
Telly Talk Star
Thanks for the interview clip @Toni!
Mark Graison and John Beck had the worst luck! Mark gets a fatal illness and John Beck loses his role on the show. I'd think he would have been moved up to the main cast had they not decided to rehire Patrick Duffy. I think John Beck did a fine job as Mark Graison. I know he gets some criticism for his moustache but I'm only attracted to women, so whether he looked handsome or not is of no consequence to me.
John Beck had a tough role to play because he was pursuing Pam while she was still married to Bobby. Pam and Bobby were the fans' favorite couple on the show! Look at how much criticism any woman who Bobby moves on to gets. They not only criticize Jenna; they even go after her kid! Yet somehow John Beck doesn't get the hate that other characters do who are involved in the break ups of popular Dallas couples. He practically stalks Pam, and still remains well liked. He takes Pam to France on his plane and remains well liked. It says a lot about the actor that his character can do those things and not only not be hated, but be well liked.
I'm still not sure how I feel about him pursuing Pam while she was still married to Bobby. He doesn't know Bobby so it's not as if he's betraying his friend. He did pursue Pam, but she always had the option to end it in a definitive way and chose not to, so apparently she no longer valued her marriage highly. I think Mark thought that if he didn't go after Pam as soon as possible, another man would and he didn't want to get beaten to the punch. There would have been many men going after Pam and Mark wanted to make sure one of them didn't end up with her instead of him. He treated Pam very well too. I'm surprised Bobby wasn't willing to fight Mark for his woman, considering he was a man who would throw punches over a bad joke, some drilling equipment, or simply not getting his way. As punchy as Bobby was, I'm surprised he didn't punch Mark the first time he saw him with Pam.
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pete lashmar
Telly Talk Addict
These days Mark Grayson would be classified as a predator. He knows Pam is married but pursues her endlessly - first with meetings, then with huge bouquets of flowers, then with private plane trips...all the while knowing that she is unhappy but wants to save her marriage.
That said, Pam was very naive and stupid not to tell him to back off and Bobby, as a good friend, should have told him to back off too.
That said, Pam was very naive and stupid not to tell him to back off and Bobby, as a good friend, should have told him to back off too.
Sarah
Moderator Emerita
I’m on the fence about Mark Graison - at times I finding him too hard. He seemed to have this anger that he carried around and a bit of a chip on husband shoulder. One of the scenes that I really don’t like is when he shouts at Pam and points his fingers at her when she’s on the bed. It surprised me that she actually didn’t get up and leave.
I enjoyed the friendship he had with Jerry, how he helped Sue Ellen and he would have been and was for a time a good adversary to JR.
I’m also not sure he should have so easily accepted being second best, when Pam told him she loved him, ‘but not in the way I loved Bobby’.
I enjoyed the friendship he had with Jerry, how he helped Sue Ellen and he would have been and was for a time a good adversary to JR.
I’m also not sure he should have so easily accepted being second best, when Pam told him she loved him, ‘but not in the way I loved Bobby’.
Kenny Coyote
Telly Talk Star
Just out of curiosity, why would you only describe Mark as a predator "these days" but not in the 1980s? I'm wondering is it an implication that your philosophy has changed since he 1980s and you have a different morality as a result of it or are you implying that because it is 2020 and not the 1980s that should somehow change everyone's concept of what is right and what is wrong?
As for me, I'll just say I don't change my philosophy as it were just a page of a calendar. Mark is a predator only in the very best sense of the word:
apex predator
noun
Definition of apex predator
ecology
: a predator at the top of a food chain that is not preyed upon by any other animal
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Toni
Maximum Member
John Beck was one of the few actors of that time that had "what it takes" to star in a supersoap, with his aura of modern Clark Gable (he survived to "Flamingo Road" and got the girl at the end!). About the Wade woman and her unbearable daughter, they deserved every bit of criticism they got, and more. I didn´t watch "Dallas" to see a celebrity who had been married to a rock singer, and couldn´t act at all. I wanted to see actors: Mary Crosby was the daughter of a famous actor, but she did a great job as Kristin, and even became her eventually...
I don´t think that Mark stalked Pam, that´s an opinion from the 19th century if you let me say this. On Soapland, men and women are free to love (and bed) anyone they want. And yes, Mark is a very hated character, I´m sorry to say. He didn´t follow Pam the way April did when she followed Bobby to Vienna. Of course he had designs on her, and you probably know better than me (). But it was quickly obvious that he didn´t want to have a fling with her, he wanted to marry her, and even waited for a whole year until they went up those upstairs à la "Gone with the Wind" (you see, his similarity with Gable?).
Bobby was castrated by Jenna, and when April found him in Europe, he was a shadow of his former self. Not only he didn´t care at all about what she had done to his family (getting a share of their company just using a technicality), but he also didn´t mind that she bitched around Dallas whenever she saw him with other ladies (which she wasn´t, actually...). Before Bobby, she offered herself to Jeremy, Wes and slept with married man J.R. several times (which she didn´t even admit: she said later that "it was only once"...Liar!). April complicated Nicholas´s life a lot too, and even indirectly caused the death of the detective she had hired.
The writers themselves saw how unattractive April actually was, because Bobby went through one-night stands and relationships with other women until they manipulated the audience by having her beat by that wacko Tommy. Of course I hate any kind of violence, but here Bobby was trying to kill someone who had an addiction (and he knew it) and the writers used the old cliché of Bobby rescuing the "damsel in distress" as a way to get them closer again. That was completely b.s. and the most contrived way to pair two characters up.
And another thing I never understand when it´s mentioned here: they never introduced Mark as Bobby´s friend, but as the client of the best "Dallas" lawyer needed by Miss Ellie. There is even one scene when he hangs up the phone and, when he sees it´s Mark, he says: "Graison? I haven´t seen you in ages" or something like that. It´s not Guzzler or Cantrell who we are talking about here, he´s just one of the many playboys from "Dallas".
Just add that Bobby and JR´s obsession with winning Ewing Oil is a proof of how immature both of them were. They were adults and their dad was dead and buried (well, he was just feeding fishes in that lake, but you know what I mean...) and they were still fighting for who had the biggest...ambition. It made a great season of TV but in reality both should have gone to the shrink. Pam took a lot of crap from the Ewings and that said a lot of how much she loved Bobby (I would have left in the middle of the Pilot miniseries, I can tell you...). Just my 2 cents.
I don´t think that Mark stalked Pam, that´s an opinion from the 19th century if you let me say this. On Soapland, men and women are free to love (and bed) anyone they want. And yes, Mark is a very hated character, I´m sorry to say. He didn´t follow Pam the way April did when she followed Bobby to Vienna. Of course he had designs on her, and you probably know better than me (
). But it was quickly obvious that he didn´t want to have a fling with her, he wanted to marry her, and even waited for a whole year until they went up those upstairs à la "Gone with the Wind" (you see, his similarity with Gable?). Bobby was castrated by Jenna, and when April found him in Europe, he was a shadow of his former self. Not only he didn´t care at all about what she had done to his family (getting a share of their company just using a technicality), but he also didn´t mind that she bitched around Dallas whenever she saw him with other ladies (which she wasn´t, actually...). Before Bobby, she offered herself to Jeremy, Wes and slept with married man J.R. several times (which she didn´t even admit: she said later that "it was only once"...Liar!). April complicated Nicholas´s life a lot too, and even indirectly caused the death of the detective she had hired.
The writers themselves saw how unattractive April actually was, because Bobby went through one-night stands and relationships with other women until they manipulated the audience by having her beat by that wacko Tommy. Of course I hate any kind of violence, but here Bobby was trying to kill someone who had an addiction (and he knew it) and the writers used the old cliché of Bobby rescuing the "damsel in distress" as a way to get them closer again. That was completely b.s. and the most contrived way to pair two characters up.
And another thing I never understand when it´s mentioned here: they never introduced Mark as Bobby´s friend, but as the client of the best "Dallas" lawyer needed by Miss Ellie. There is even one scene when he hangs up the phone and, when he sees it´s Mark, he says: "Graison? I haven´t seen you in ages" or something like that. It´s not Guzzler or Cantrell who we are talking about here, he´s just one of the many playboys from "Dallas".
Just add that Bobby and JR´s obsession with winning Ewing Oil is a proof of how immature both of them were. They were adults and their dad was dead and buried (well, he was just feeding fishes in that lake, but you know what I mean...) and they were still fighting for who had the biggest...ambition. It made a great season of TV but in reality both should have gone to the shrink. Pam took a lot of crap from the Ewings and that said a lot of how much she loved Bobby (I would have left in the middle of the Pilot miniseries, I can tell you...). Just my 2 cents.
pete lashmar
Telly Talk Addict
In the 8o's men were just men, nowadays I suppose stalker would be a better description that predator.
But he definitely stalked Pam.
And the only way to deal with a stalker...? Cut off his stalk!
But he definitely stalked Pam.
And the only way to deal with a stalker...? Cut off his stalk!
Toni
Maximum Member
Pam was naive but not stupid: if she allowed Mark to "carry on", maybe it´s because she felt neglected by Bobby. Besides, she had just lost her mother and Cliff still was striving to get out of his depression. I think Pam´s behavior toward Mark is just a nuance of the character, not something "devious" or a proof of her weakness. And she did tell him to back off at first ("I´m a modern woman, but I don´t date other men if I don´t want to", she told him if I remember well), but if she allowed him to keep on trying, it´s because she liked what she was seeing...
:danc::danc::danc::danc::danc::danc::danc:
Sarah
Moderator Emerita
...and slept with married man J.R. several times (which she didn´t even admit: she said later that "it was only once"...Liar!).
Good to see someone as verbal as me dear Piggy... but please don’t embellish the truth about my husband and your not so favourite little tramp....it was once. The End @Toni
Kenny Coyote
Telly Talk Star
In the 8o's men were just men, nowadays I suppose stalker would be a better description that predator.
But he definitely stalked Pam.
And the only way to deal with a stalker...? Cut off his stalk!
An animal stalks its prey to kill it. A killer stalks his victim. Stalking has a strong connotation of violence which in no way describes Mark's actions regarding Pam unless he intended to love her to death.
Mark pursued Pam. It is literally what he did and there is no connotation in "pursue" that makes it out to be violent.
"Pursue" describes what Mark was doing and it is a word neutral as to intent. Do we have any reason to think that Pam wishes someone has stopped Mark from pursuing her, or that she regrets the day she ever met him? No. By all indications she enjoyed Mark's company and was glad that he had the persistence to keep trying to charm her because she ended up having some wonderful times with Mark. I don't see negativity there; I see a positive result.
That's why I say if Mark was a predator, he was a predator in the best sense of the word: an apex predator - an animal at the top of its food chain. We are the top of the food chain. That's because man is the rational animal. We are the only animal that cannot survive on instinct. To survive, we must use reason.