Mustard
Telly Talk TV Fanatic
Are you sure that it was Katzman who created Angelica Nero rather than Dunne? I somehow don't think the way Angelica developed was Katzman's idea.
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The shower scene was the problem, not the dream explanation
- Thread starter Grangehill1
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Are you sure that it was Katzman who created Angelica Nero rather than Dunne? I somehow don't think the way Angelica developed was Katzman's idea.
Spooky Owl!
Telly Talk Supreme
Yes, the way Nero developed was not to Katzman's liking -- he wanted her gone after less than a dozen episodes, but Dunne and his team of writers extended her stay.
Piggyrella Sanderson
Maximum Member
Mr. Katzman proved that he knew better about villains: because a mad terrorist, a bunch of range war mercenaries, a murderous coke addict and another terrorist widow were such clever, glamorous (well, Susan Lucci was!), Dallas-y and not OTT characters. What a double-face the Katzmen were...
I really like Rove’s idea of gradually inserting odd scenes into the latter half of 85-86, and then having Bobby wake up at the end. We’ve mostly been watching Bobby’s dream, with a few scenes of the “real” universe slid in at the end.
Then, they could have picked up the story in the “real” universe one year later. It’s the equivalent of the time jumps that “Desperate Housewives” and other series have done more recently. And they could have had a very intriguing time explaining all that has happened since then. Perhaps, in the season premiere, right after you see Bobby wake up, you cut to Pam. She now has a completely different life (maybe even in a new city) with a new man. Is this guy her husband? How did they meet and why did she leave Dallas? You could do that for multiple characters and then how they got where they are is gradually revealed throughout the early part of the season.
Then, they could have picked up the story in the “real” universe one year later. It’s the equivalent of the time jumps that “Desperate Housewives” and other series have done more recently. And they could have had a very intriguing time explaining all that has happened since then. Perhaps, in the season premiere, right after you see Bobby wake up, you cut to Pam. She now has a completely different life (maybe even in a new city) with a new man. Is this guy her husband? How did they meet and why did she leave Dallas? You could do that for multiple characters and then how they got where they are is gradually revealed throughout the early part of the season.
RachelBixby
Telly Talk Member
Wow! That is a much better way of handling the dilemma of bringing Bobby back. It makes so much more sense.
RachelBixby
Telly Talk Member
That's a good point! Dreams are very non-sequitur.
KayLloyd
Telly Talk Addict
Having Bobby show up at Mark and Pam's wedding would definitely have been much more interesting.
southfork88
Telly Talk TV Fanatic
Too common in daytime soap operas ...
Piggyrella Sanderson
Maximum Member
I wonder if that was in the fake copy of the script they gave to the National Enquirer...Also, remember the preview in "Blast from the Past"? Everybody at the wedding and then, the priest opens his mouth astonished (not making this up!). I would have preferred this option, I think.
Jock's Ghost
Telly Talk Well-Known Member
Bobby's trauma is the explanation. He dies, briefly, and he's brought back with the Season 10 premiere- NO stupid shower scene and tells everyone this weird place he went. Don't over-explain, just explain it was Bobby's trauma that brought on the fake reality.... S10 has him recop and learns to walk again.
OR
He never dies, BUT his injuries are grave enough to put him in a coma.....S9, some of it, has the family holding vigil and the doctors coming back with,' You should consider turning off the machines, blah blah....' JR, Miss Ellie tell them to shove it. .......a very good friend of mine experienced just this. He was in a boating accident, his arm was broken, he got sepsis, from the dirty water... all kinds of things piled on... the family was 2 days from being asked to consider turning off all the machines when a female doctor came in, and said he will survive- DO this and that.... a few days later he wakes up..... certainly not impossible and was in the realm of believable and good drama and it wouldn't have screwed with KNOTS LANDING.
JR showed up occasionally to talk to Bobby much like he does the painting of their Dad. Pam shows up a few times. Miss Ellie, tells him, "GOODBYE" of sorts as she won't be visiting her boy like this......
S9 cliffhanger has Bobby waking up with a struggle GOOD MORNING.!
Wes Paramalee shows up because he heard that Bobby was in an accident.
SEE! Why couldn't the pros do this?????
Since Duffy wanted out and Bobby dead... .see explanation #1
OR
Bobby goes missing! We find out later that Katherine hired goons to kidnap him.
OR
Bobby fakes his death- the cliffhanger ends with everyone filing out of his room. We see Pam stay behind. She watches as they wheel his gurney into the elevator. She watches with tears in her eyes as the door slowly closes, but just BEFORE it does- BOBBY RISES UP!
FREEZE FRAME!
Pam has been crazy in the past, is considered crazy now. Pam straightens up enough not to mourn Bobby like everyone else, but to just wait for his return. She looks nuts but is still reasonably stable. Instead of the MARK bullshit that season, she waits for Bobby....
Instead of the dumb-ass shower scene, Pam is in the park with Christopher. A strange man disguised is seen watching them. Later, as Pam is walking to her car, she is abducted and taken to a cabin in the woods. Asking why she is here, the same strange man walks up to her, and pulls his disguise off- BOBBY EWING. "The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated," he says with a sly grin. Pam faints. She wakes up, kisses him hard on the mouth and then does her famous SLAP to the face.
I did this in 30 minutes- Katzman is a fucking hack!
OR
He never dies, BUT his injuries are grave enough to put him in a coma.....S9, some of it, has the family holding vigil and the doctors coming back with,' You should consider turning off the machines, blah blah....' JR, Miss Ellie tell them to shove it. .......a very good friend of mine experienced just this. He was in a boating accident, his arm was broken, he got sepsis, from the dirty water... all kinds of things piled on... the family was 2 days from being asked to consider turning off all the machines when a female doctor came in, and said he will survive- DO this and that.... a few days later he wakes up..... certainly not impossible and was in the realm of believable and good drama and it wouldn't have screwed with KNOTS LANDING.
JR showed up occasionally to talk to Bobby much like he does the painting of their Dad. Pam shows up a few times. Miss Ellie, tells him, "GOODBYE" of sorts as she won't be visiting her boy like this......
S9 cliffhanger has Bobby waking up with a struggle GOOD MORNING.!
Wes Paramalee shows up because he heard that Bobby was in an accident.
SEE! Why couldn't the pros do this?????
Since Duffy wanted out and Bobby dead... .see explanation #1
OR
Bobby goes missing! We find out later that Katherine hired goons to kidnap him.
OR
Bobby fakes his death- the cliffhanger ends with everyone filing out of his room. We see Pam stay behind. She watches as they wheel his gurney into the elevator. She watches with tears in her eyes as the door slowly closes, but just BEFORE it does- BOBBY RISES UP!
FREEZE FRAME!
Pam has been crazy in the past, is considered crazy now. Pam straightens up enough not to mourn Bobby like everyone else, but to just wait for his return. She looks nuts but is still reasonably stable. Instead of the MARK bullshit that season, she waits for Bobby....
Instead of the dumb-ass shower scene, Pam is in the park with Christopher. A strange man disguised is seen watching them. Later, as Pam is walking to her car, she is abducted and taken to a cabin in the woods. Asking why she is here, the same strange man walks up to her, and pulls his disguise off- BOBBY EWING. "The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated," he says with a sly grin. Pam faints. She wakes up, kisses him hard on the mouth and then does her famous SLAP to the face.
I did this in 30 minutes- Katzman is a fucking hack!
Jock's Ghost
Telly Talk Well-Known Member
That was a fake script they got. Enquirer was a rag, but when it came time to reveal spoilers and bust scoops, they were the best.
CBS actually teased this in their promos. They showed the scene where Pam and Mark are in front of their wedding guests before saying their vows, and people are turning around, with the announcer saying “Patrick Duffy returns!” So we thought he’d show up at the wedding.
the-lost-son
Telly Talk Well-Known Member
Exactly and that's something which I don't I like - generating certain expectations and not delivering. It seems like there must have been a tremendous amount of politics going on. Sure the show lost some viewers but it was still in the topten. It speaks volumes that TPTB did not sack Katzman when he drove the show in the ground both in ratings in quality.
He simply did not care to provide some explanation to resurrect Bobby. He said he didn't a grip on the (dream season's) storylines and therefore made it a dream (although he wrote whole episodes) - it's just bizarre.
Dallas was an ensemble show onscreen and not just the Bobby&JR show like in its last years.
I think that was the same problem behind the scenes. It did not work with just Katzman and/or Phil Capice with fill power. The first year's success was the work of Bernhard Lewis, Paulsen, Lee Rich... and many more and recently I read how Marchetta had contributed to "Who shot JR" and the "Moldavian Massacre").
It was a very successful ensemble of writers, story editors, directors and producers...
How can you not recognize the great work of Bradford May? Too much power for one person, that was the problem.
Spooky Owl!
Telly Talk Supreme
If we're going to keep that shower scene, I wanted it preceded by a gasp from Pam as she exits her wedding on Mark's arm. We get a shot of the crowded sidewalk on the opposing side of the street -- we sense Pam has seen something but it's no longer there.
The morning after the wedding, she gets up, goes to the shower, opens the door, and Pam finds Bobby who gives her a "good morning!" and a freeze frame.
But as the next season starts, we see Pam at the shower door, and only pink tile. She's confused. The camera pans down and it's Graison dead on the floor of the shower. She screams. By the start of the next episode, after Bobby explains what happened and why he'd been thought dead for a year, Pam realizes that she'd indeed seen Bobby across the street from her wedding, and that and the stress over Graison dying caused her to hallucinate that Bobby was in her bathroom sudsing up.
Too stupid?
While the show ranked in the top 10 for the overall season, that average factored in relatively strong ratings for the first half of the season. Ratings in the second half of the season dropped dramatically and episodes in the spring of 1986 were ranking around #15 in the weekly ratings. Those episodes showed a year over year loss o over 20% of the audience.
Jock's Ghost
Telly Talk Well-Known Member
I had read he was back by March...
Jock's Ghost
Telly Talk Well-Known Member
No more stupid than what we got. Not bad at all.
Jock's Ghost
Telly Talk Well-Known Member
Phillip Capice added his touch, his best work being Season 6 when DALLAS was pure sensational and fire. The problem with an ensemble show is when it's run by ONE mind, things go bad fast and there are no other alternatives to fix problems- I find it hard to believe the Dream Scenario was the best fix, and that came from outside the circle- Patrick's, now late, wife!
xab
Telly Talk Fan
Pam waking up after the Ewing oil explosion (just like when you wake up in a shock right after a nightmare climax)
Good morning Bobby smiling in the shower as if nothing ever happened.
I will never ever believe they didn't know it would turn into a dream when they shot the shower scene. They obviously had made up their mind long before.
Good morning Bobby smiling in the shower as if nothing ever happened.
I will never ever believe they didn't know it would turn into a dream when they shot the shower scene. They obviously had made up their mind long before.
Spooky Owl!
Telly Talk Supreme
I can assure you that Patrick's wife didn't really come up with the dream scenario -- even if she guessed it.
Katzman was determined to do it that way and no other way.
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