What ultimately killed Dallas?

[pete lashmar]

The fact is, IMHO, there is almost no plotline that you can't do -- short of flying saucers -- depending on how it's executed. But when a series is just slinging sloppy ideas to the audience, sloppily rendered, even the most potentially-inspired story or new set of characters just can't work.

The reason DYNASTY got so bad, after Season 2 or 3, weren't the story ideas but their implementation where the dialogue flow became goofy and the actors became overly-constrained causing them all to seem victims of a group-rate lobotomy. FALCON CREST was always a show that could get away with being crazier (and that's where the UFO should have happened) but even that show started to feel too stupid when plots, however wacky, became too wink-at-the-camera facetious (like what happened to Melissa, once perhaps FC's most popular character whom was made increasingly mentally-ill for the purposes of "laughs").

At least KNOTS played it straight until the end, which is why its ratings outstripped DALLAS and DYNASTY by the end of the '80s, even though budget limitations saw the core KNOTS characters replaced by a daytime soapy barrage of younger people in its closing years.

Cally, James, Michelle, Vanessa -- even ELLIE, SHE WROTE and Lady Jessica's unladylike murder-spree -- could have worked had the final seasons of DALLAS remained character-based and not shifted into the whimsical, 'oh-what-the-hell' tone that it did.

At the end of the day, these programs were essentially family dramas, and when they got away from that, they mostly all fell apart.

Very good points.

Add to that the writing off of a whole season, a season that had some brilliant storylines and character development (Ray & Donna's adoption being the best) as a dream and you know a show is in trouble.

It's because the audience invested in the characters that when faced with the "It was all a dream", they felt completely robbed.

Later, when new characters were brought in most of them were either completely unlikable (Michelle I'm looking at you especially) or they had such a negative impact on well loved characters that the audience rejected them.

Jack could and should have worked very well, but when Bobby returned the writers failed to integrate the character well enough for him to fit in - but he should have and could have been a great asset to the show.

Alternatively, a character like Jenna should have been written out as soon as Bobby and Pam got back together, the fact that writers kept her hanging around like a bad smell and then put her and Ray together was something that left viewers with a bad taste in their mouths because they knew that these characters were just not right together and both had been hugely watered down from the characters they once were. The same happened with just about every character on the show, the more the series went on the lesser characters they became.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Very good points.

Add to that the writing off of a whole season, a season that had some brilliant storylines and character development (Ray & Donna's adoption being the best) as a dream and you know a show is in trouble.

It's because the audience invested in the characters that when faced with the "It was all a dream", they felt completely robbed.

Later, when new characters were brought in most of them were either completely unlikable (Michelle I'm looking at you especially) or they had such a negative impact on well loved characters that the audience rejected them.

Jack could and should have worked very well, but when Bobby returned the writers failed to integrate the character well enough for him to fit in - but he should have and could have been a great asset to the show.

Alternatively, a character like Jenna should have been written out as soon as Bobby and Pam got back together, the fact that writers kept her hanging around like a bad smell and then put her and Ray together was something that left viewers with a bad taste in their mouths because they knew that these characters were just not right together and both had been hugely watered down from the characters they once were. The same happened with just about every character on the show, the more the series went on the lesser characters they became.

Yes, although even the dream season was marred by the overwhelming sense that these plotlines weren't going anywhere -- which the audience can feel.

 

[pete lashmar]

Yes, although even the dream season was marred by the overwhelming sense that these plotlines weren't going anywhere -- which the audience can feel.

I've always believed that the whole Angelica plot was far too ridiculous and out of the ballpark for Dallas but would have been fully accepted within Dynasty.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I've always believed that the whole Angelica plot was far too ridiculous and out of the ballpark for Dallas but would have been fully accepted within Dynasty.

Although I think it could have worked even on DALLAS as a short-term story arc, but they didn't know what they wanted to do with it -- which is indeed very, very DYNASTY.

 

[Grangehill1]

The end of season 10 the show lost Pam, Donna, Mandy AND Ewing Oil.

Ive said it before but season 11 is the one that totally destroys Dallas. None of the regular cast interact with each other, they all spend more time with secondary characters. The Pam storyline is awful, splitting Sue Ellen and JR was a massive mistake.
Ewing Oil no longer exists.
It’s just not the same show

 

[pete lashmar]

Although I think it could have worked even on DALLAS as a short-term story arc, but they didn't know what they wanted to do with it -- which is indeed very, very DYNASTY.

In my book as soon as a soap goes down the road of doppelgangers or amnesia (which I know are huge staples of soaps) they lose my interest completely. I appreciate that a very quick, short term amnesia plot can add to shows, but when they drag on they are so very dull IMO.

 

[Rove]

I've always believed that the whole Angelica plot was far too ridiculous and out of the ballpark for Dallas but would have been fully accepted within Dynasty.

Hence her inclusion. I'd bet my house behind the scene politics was at play here. Spooked by Dynasty's ever growing popularity with its over-the-top plots I'm sure those executives at Dallas thought we need to inject the same. Dynasty turned into a guilty viewing experience and credit where its due they delivered. Dallas though was adult contemporary drama and once the writers and producers messed with that winning formulae they screwed it up.

 

[Barbara Fan]

@Barbara Fan can you remind me why Barbara didn't return for the final season?

Due to cost cuttings, She was only going to be in 4 shows and she told them No Thanks

She also didnt part on great terms with Larry Hagman as a result

 

[Pamela_E]

Due to cost cuttings, She was only going to be in 4 shows and she told them No Thanks

She also didnt part on great terms with Larry Hagman as a result

I have always found it odd that the TV stars in the US get paid so much per an episode after a show has been on for years, to the point the show has to axe people or the show itself ends. So they do themselves out of a job.

That's I why I really like the story about Michelle Lee who waved her fee on Knots so she could be in more episodes in the final season.
If Knots had continued more heads would have rolled as they couldn't afford them.

Larry and Patrick must have been earning a fortune. Probably Ken as well.

 

[Rove]

So they do themselves out of a job

Yet those same actors will say in interviews how the said series we're talking about floundered with poor scripts and the departure of actors. Go figure.

 

[stevew]

By the time April died the ratings were much lower. I like April but she was not pulling in the viewers.

Perhaps of the format strayed too far from the original concept then the show lost its fanbase.

Maybe they could deal with the loss of Pamela but loosing Sue Ellen just sent it too far off it's axis. It was probably a combination of things, including viewer fatigue.

I agree with the idea, way too off from the original concept: wealthy Ewing family with its successful independent oil company (new money) and ranch (old money) taking on each other and then uniting to take in their enemies, a petty aristocratic American family in larger than life Texas, sexy, greed and chuckles. It became the JR and Bobby show, nothing more, too older men acting like kids without adult supervision. All good things come to an end, but I think in this case things lead to a premature death which could have been avoided. Dallas became the house guest who over stayed his welcome. They came back for a couple more good byes instead of real good stories and then finally showed up one last time proving you can never go back, just kinda left me wondering why they tried.

I voted for "It simply outgrew its popularity."

There is one thread I started a few months ago dealing with an aging cast.

An aging cast

This thread is not meant to be offensive. Dallas' cast aged really well, but nonetheless during such a long run age is a factor which has its influence if certain storylines work or don't. Lenny Katzman said in the early 90s that the show was produced with the same care like a decade before...

tellytalk.net

First of all - Dallas first ~250 episodes were great, most of them excellent, unrivaled imo and highly enjoyable (till Swan song at least and Pam's exit at the latest).

The core, the bare essence of a family drama is a strong matriarch/patriarch with their offspring fighting for a certain place at the table. The most interesting age of the brothers/daughters is their 30s/early 40s because there are the most milestones in your lifespan (weddings, affairs, divorces, pregnancies).

All family dramas put their focus on this time slot - Succession, Empire...
Dallas was most successful when Bobby/JR were fighting for their spot at the head of the table, their dad's approval. Their marital problems, being competitor to produce an heir... made it so compelling to watch.

After 10 years the show's structure changed. Their sons were not old enough to fight for Ewing Oil/Southfork. The concept only works for a limited time in one's lifespan. The structure of the show changed.

The story had simply been told (and could have only been continued with a time jump.)

I agree mostly. I think 20s, 30s and 40s provide the most interest in this format with rare characters into the 50s. I totally agree that the family element has died and for the most part no one was left to fill the void of the parents or the children. But JR and Sue Ellen could have become the head of the family and Lucy, Jack and others could have fit in nicely as the younger generation. Even Jason could have worked out if they’d done a better job. They needed to mature JR, leave Bobby dead and come up with some 20-40 year olds fighting for their seat at the table.

I have always found it odd that the TV stars in the US get paid so much per an episode after a show has been on for years, to the point the show has to axe people or the show itself ends. So they do themselves out of a job.

That's I why I really like the story about Michelle Lee who waved her fee on Knots so she could be in more episodes in the final season.
If Knots had continued more heads would have rolled as they couldn't afford them.

Larry and Patrick must have been earning a fortune. Probably Ken as well.

Good point. I think they might have even been ok without JR. Saved a fortune and moved Bobby and Pam on as the head of the family. I wonder how that story would have went over. Still needed 20-40 something children to be relevant imo.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Let's face it: when a slew of bleach-blonde bimbos begin buying up Ewing Oil with their pocket change as they drive down Elm Street before exiting Dallas, something about the show just isn't working anymore.

 

[pete lashmar]

It amazes me that the writers/producers never brought in some of the big associated characters for better and longer plots and stories. People like Punk, all the Cartel characters etc could have been used in later years instead of bringing in characters who viewers had no knowledge of or affection for.

Even the Jamie story was pitched wrongly and she was an actual Ewing. Writers would have been better off bringing Jason in WITH Jamie, that could have sparked all kinds of stories and plots, especially for Elliie and J.R.

I just don't think the writers cared at all about what they were putting on screen.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

It amazes me that the writers/producers never brought in some of the big associated characters for better and longer plots and stories. People like Punk, all the Cartel characters etc could have been used in later years instead of bringing in characters who viewers had no knowledge of or affection for.

Even the Jamie story was pitched wrongly and she was an actual Ewing. Writers would have been better off bringing Jason in WITH Jamie, that could have sparked all kinds of stories and plots, especially for Elliie and J.R.

I just don't think the writers cared at all about what they were putting on screen.

Agreed, but the cartel were all old folks.

Larry later admitted that, due to falling ratings, CBS got very "involved" in the 89/90 season -- which, of course, means bringing in new, younger characters.

And we all know the teenagers-by-the-pool trope has saved every aging show in television history.

I guess this must be Jeanne O'Brien:

 

[Jimmy Todd]

And the most popular story lines weren't focused on those one would call "spring chickens."
The popularity of Alexis Colby's character and The Golden Girls put the lie to the idea that "youth " is always the answer.

 

[Barbara Fan]

Larry and Patrick must have been earning a fortune. Probably Ken as well.

I dont think that Ken K was in the same league pay wise
Would still earn more / episode than most will make in a year though!

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I dont think that Ken K was in the same league pay wise
Would still earn more / episode than most will make in a year though!

Oh, certainly. Larry said the last three years -- once he was credited as an executive producer -- were his key earning years on the show, making $350,000 per episode --- large even by today's standards.

I think his salary dropped down to $70,000/episode for nuDALLAS after he and Maj had been ripped-off by Bernie Madoff.

 

[Karin]

Yes Larry was without a doubt the highest paid actor on Dallas. He made a lot of money and yet a couple of years later "the kids from Friends" made 1 million dollars/episode. Yet I don't think they were better actors than he was. But of course the cast of Friends negotiated as a team, had equal pay and as a result had all their cast until the end, knew when to pull the plug on the show and went out on top after 10 successful seasons.

 

[WarriorsFan]

Larry later admitted that, due to falling ratings, CBS got very "involved" in the 89/90 season -- which, of course, means bringing in new, younger characters.

CBS was a mess in 1989/1990. Their only show in the Top 10 was 60 Minutes (7th), and their highest rated scripted shows were Murder She Wrote (13th), Designing Women (22nd), Murphy Brown (27th). The three primetime soaps were below the Top 30, and as we know it was the last season of Falcon Crest and the second-to-last season of Dallas.

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

It amazes me that the writers/producers never brought in some of the big associated characters for better and longer plots and stories. People like Punk, all the Cartel characters etc could have been used in later years instead of bringing in characters who viewers had no knowledge of or affection for.

I’m still baffled as to why the country’s major publishing houses refuse to offer a premium for the rights to my 3-volume magnum opus “The Tragic Underutilization of the Dynamic Andy Bradley”