Would we have had Conundrum if Victoria returned for the final episode?

Grangehill1

Telly Talk Fan
I get what he means. It wouldn't have been a "real" return, it would have been in the context of the fantasy scenario that they did. Just getting Pam and Bobby together again on screen would have been seen by most fans as an "ending" to their story. I'm guessing, as someone else noted, if Victoria had appeared they would have giving her and Patrick the ending that they gave Gary and Val. We would have likely still seen the story of Bobby living his life as a reckless playboy with no direction, until in the end he somehow meets Pam for "the first time" and sparks fly and see them planning to go out on a date. And that would indicate they were destined to be together.

But on the topic I think it's important to note that we do have the answer to the question posed in this thread. Yes, if Victoria agreed to return we would have had Conundrum, because that was what she was asked to return for, it had already been planned. Again, remember, they didn't know if the the series was really ending when they shot that, which is why it had that cliffhanger. So folks fantasizing about some other "real" ending are mislead. If anything, the hypothetical should be, If The Producers Knew Dallas Was Ending, And Had Enough Advance Notice Of It, Would We Have Had Conundrum? What if, say, halfway through season 14, CBS told them they weren't renewing the show, so the producers and writers had time to come up with whatever they considered a proper ending and could rewrite the rest of the season in order to lead up to it, including negotiating with past cast members to see who would be willing to return to wrap up everyone's stories?

Ironically, if that was the case, we probably wouldn't have gotten a return of Gary and Val, since the continuity with Knots didn't match up, but we may have gotten returns of characters like Lucy, Donna, Jenna, & Charlie along with Ray and Sue Ellen.
You’re absolutely right in how the question should be rephrased. But seeing what state the show was in that time, seeing how the producers knew Victoria was leaving two years in advance and gave her that awful exit, yes I still think we would have ended up with Conundrum.
 

Jabari Lamar

Telly Talk Fan
It’s the Dallas fanzine interview with Jason interviewing Victoria. He asks her about returning and Victoria says ‘Pam is dead’ and there’s a brief pause after and I can’t remember what happens next
That's the interview I linked to. In it she does make it clear that she enjoyed her time on the show, she even says she has all the DVD boxsets, and he asks her if she could pick an episode to do commentary on she says she would do the first 5 episodes. And she says she was asked "several times" to return but doesn't elaborate. And yeah she says Pam's dead when asked about showing up on TNT, this was before the series debuted, and doesn't see how you could explain her return without getting silly, but she does get a little playful when he suggests different ways to explain, which I'm sure some fans will take a sign that she was open to it, but it sounds to me like she's just being diplomatic about it for the interview.
 

Snarky Oracle!

Telly Talk Supreme
And what was JR’s actual conundrum???! Whether to shoot himself or not?

Well, if JR hadn't been born, some of their lives would have actually turned out worse. So do we want JR to be alive or not? -- is that a conundrum? A conundrum of fate?
 

Chris2

Telly Talk Dream Maker
It's been a long time. Are you sure you're remembering that the article quoted her as saying that? Or is it possible that it quoted Katzman or someone else saying that's why she didn't return?
It had a direct quote from Victoria where she said she would have loved to have gone back to put a “coda” (her words) on her time as Pam and that she didn’t want to do a cliffhanger episode.
 

Rove

Telly Talk Warrior
But as she noted when she announced she wasn't coming on to the TNT show, when she left the show in the first place, she did consider that the end to the story. As far as she was concerned, Pam was meant to be killed in that crash, it's not her fault how the writers instead chose to portray her character after she was done, so she was under no obligation to return to "fix" it later.
Well said.
 

Jabari Lamar

Telly Talk Fan
Sidney in NY asks - It is now 20 years since you left Dallas. Would you ever consider being in a reunion movie. Would you be in it under any capacity?

Victoria Principal – No I would not. I think some things are better left alone. There is a time and place to consider a reunion movie but twenty years later it feels pathetic.
(Laughs loudly, again the hearty laugh is back and is extremely contagious).

Colin – (now has the giggles)

Victoria Principal – That used to get me in trouble, I’m just much too candid (Laughs)

Colin – Actually all these years later, there is such a big thing about your exit, there was no defining end to the character.

Victoria Principal – That’s because everyone whoever left Dallas came back and they kept the idea going that I might come back and I was fully resolved not too.

Charmed one 82 asks Is it true you'd have returned for the last episode of Dallas had it been guaranteed as the last ever episode?

Victoria Principal – No it’s not true. I was asked back for the last episode.

Official Dallas website - Victoria Principal from Dallas exclusive interview (ultimatedallas.com)
 

Rove

Telly Talk Warrior
I think if Victoria (Pam) had returned to do a final episode of Dallas (not Conundrum) it would have raised more questions than answers. Where had she been? Why did she desert Christopher? Especially when she felt that exact same abandonment as a child. It wouldn't have made any sense. And if Pam suddenly appeared without a scar after that horrific accident, it would have just been more laughable.
 

Jabari Lamar

Telly Talk Fan
I think they could have made Pam's reappearance work, if they'd done it when the original series ended. She'd only been gone for what? 4-5 years at that point? I've said before in various hypothetical threads about how would you have ended Dallas, that I would have brought that other actress back as Pam, using the explanation about her supposed fatal disease to explain her absence, say it's in remission and have her, Bobby, and Christopher leave Dallas to spend however much time she has left together away from all the drama. Sure, I agree, it may have been a bit of a reach, but not the most outlandish story for a soap opera.

I think like she says in the interview I posted, after 20 years then it's too late. So having her show up on DallasTNT and trying to realistically explain her absence that would indeed have been "desperate", as she later said.

In any case, clearly I mis-remembered what I read and heard, and was combining the two different interviews in my mind, the audio interview with Dallas Fanzine and that print interview with Ultimate Dallas. The latter is the one and only time I've seen her address the rumor of why she turned down the appearance on Conundrum, and refutes it. I've been googling a ton during my breaks here at work today, and I can't find any interview where she directly says or is quoted as saying that she would have come back if they guaranteed that it was the final episode ever. I'm not saying she never said it, just that I can't find any record of her actually saying it.
Plenty of articles online state it as a fact, including the IMDB page for the episode, but there are no citations. All we have is the fact that it was written in Barbara Cullen's book, which Victoria wrote the introduction to. But beside that, every single article I've ever seen where she talks about leaving Dallas is that when she did she never intended to return. I've even seen her compare Bobby and Pam to Romeo and Juliet, which is why she thought her exit was fitting, as the romance ended in death.

And, like I said, the more I think about it, the more absurd that supposed request sounds. I mean, if that was really Victoria’s only requirement for agreeing to appear at the time then, f**k it, why didn’t Katzman just lie to her? Tell her, yeah, sure, it’s the final episode ever. He may not have known for a fact that the series wasn’t going to be renewed for another season, but he knew there was a very strong possibility that it wouldn’t be. He was a veteran of the business, he could see the weekly ratings, he knew the show was going down, which is exactly why they came up with the ending that they did, where they at least cleared up all the current storylines, with the only opening being J.R.’s fate at the end. So tell her it’s the end, get her in the episode and there’s a greater than 50% chance that he was right. An on the off-chance that CBS did renew Dallas at the last minute? What was she gonna do? Sue them? Was she going to have a clause written into her one-episode contract that forbid any further Dallas episodes from being filmed? I’m pretty sure that couldn’t be enforced. And would that clause apply to reunion films and continuations too? Imagine TNT announcing a Dallas revival in 2011 and Victoria Principal’s lawyer in court saying “No! You can’t do that! We have a contract from 1991 saying there can never ever be another episode of Dallas!”
 

Chris2

Telly Talk Dream Maker
Victoria has changed her stories multiple times over the years. Even after the gave the “Pam is dead” quote prior to TNT Dallas premiering, she later contradicted it with musings about what happened to Pam and whether she could potentially return. And then during season 2 of the reboot when they hinted that Pam was alive, she changed her story again and said that Pam died in the car crash and she couldn’t help what the writers did after. In another inconsistency, she also spoke about how she gave the producers two years notice about her departure, but by other accounts, she was actively negotiating to renew her contract in 1987 (there were disagreements over contract length and salary).

Victoria’s demand for the final episode had nothing to do with “It must be contractually the last episode” and everything to do with it being a wrap up episode. She knew the fantasy idea stunk. Even if Conundrum had been guaranteed to be the last episode, she wouldn’t have done it because it was not a true wrap-up episode. That was her story in 1991, and I think it has since been misinterpreted as “It must be the last episode”, which is sort of the same thing, but not really. She wanted to wrap up Pam’s story and Conundrum wasn’t going to do that. And since then she has said, “I consider Pam to have died in the accident.” So she’s nothing if not inconsistent.
 

Jabari Lamar

Telly Talk Fan
Victoria has changed her stories multiple times over the years. Even after the gave the “Pam is dead” quote prior to TNT Dallas premiering, she later contradicted it with musings about what happened to Pam and whether she could potentially return. And then during season 2 of the reboot when they hinted that Pam was alive, she changed her story again and said that Pam died in the car crash and she couldn’t help what the writers did after. In another inconsistency, she also spoke about how she gave the producers two years notice about her departure, but by other accounts, she was actively negotiating to renew her contract in 1987 (there were disagreements over contract length and salary).

Victoria’s demand for the final episode had nothing to do with “It must be contractually the last episode” and everything to do with it being a wrap up episode. She knew the fantasy idea stunk. Even if Conundrum had been guaranteed to be the last episode, she wouldn’t have done it because it was not a true wrap-up episode. That was her story in 1991, and I think it has since been misinterpreted as “It must be the last episode”, which is sort of the same thing, but not really. She wanted to wrap up Pam’s story and Conundrum wasn’t going to do that. And since then she has said, “I consider Pam to have died in the accident.” So she’s nothing if not inconsistent.
Is it really that hard to admit maybe you're just mis-remembering that article you read 30 years ago? Like I said, I got the two interviews I posted mixed up in my memory, and I saw those less than 9 year ago. It happens.
 

ChrisEwing2003

Telly Talk Member
Is it really that hard to admit maybe you're just mis-remembering that article you read 30 years ago? Like I said, I got the two interviews I posted mixed up in my memory, and I saw those less than 9 year ago. It happens.

I think that Victoria was interviewed at Dallas Fanzine before the pilot for the TNT series was filmed. I think she said something along the lines of if they came up with something that respected the Pam character and was a one time appearance she would consider it. The interview is on the Dallas Fanzine site last time I saw and can't access it anymore cause of no more Adobe Flash.
 

Jabari Lamar

Telly Talk Fan
I think that Victoria was interviewed at Dallas Fanzine before the pilot for the TNT series was filmed. I think she said something along the lines of if they came up with something that respected the Pam character and was a one time appearance she would consider it. The interview is on the Dallas Fanzine site last time I saw and can't access it anymore cause of no more Adobe Flash.
Yes, I posted the link myself this morning. I thought I remembered hearing her deny the conundrum rumor in that interview, but when I re-listened I was wrong. She denies any interest in returning for the reboot, she considered her appearance on the Return To Southfork her "punctuation mark" to the series. The host does press her about how they could figure out some way to bring Pam back, saying we'll have to wait and see and she laughs and says she still has the robe, nightgown and ring from Dallas. I said I could see some fans taking that as proof that she was open to a return, but it seems clear to me that she was just joking and has no interest in it. You can listen yourself and judge, the link is to Youtube, not the old fansite, so it should be fine.

Even towards her other supposed "inconsistency," regarding her leaving series, I don't see it. I can actually relate it to my own life. When I left my previous job, I hated it. So I gave my two weeks notice, I was tempted to just leave, but I wanted one more paycheck because I wanted to make sure that I had enough money to cover my expenses for three months, so I needed that little extra money. A week after my notice, the managers called me into a meeting to try to see if they could make an offer to get me to stay. I took the meeting, but I had no intention, just to hear what they'd say, but I knew in advance that I had no intention of changing my mind. I had to get out of their for my mental health, I didn't even have another job lined up, that's how badly I needed to get away. So when Victoria points out that the producers tried to entice her to stay at the last minute, she says the offered her so much that it would make her the highest paid woman on TV, I see it as the same kind of thing. It doesn't change what she said that when she gave notice two years earlier that she was leaving that she didn't mean it, and was open to staying after all.
 
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ChrisEwing2003

Telly Talk Member
Yes, I posted the link myself this morning. I thought I remembered hearing her deny the conundrum rumor in that interview, but when I re-listened I was wrong. She denies any interest in returning for the reboot, she considered her appearance on the Return To Southfork her "punctuation mark" to the series. The host does press her about how they could figure out some way to bring Pam back, saying we'll have to wait and see and she laughs and says she still has the robe, nightgown and ring from Dallas. I said I could see some fans taking that as proof that she was open to a return, but it seems clear to me that she was just joking and has no interest in it. You can listen yourself and judge, the link is to Youtube, not the old fansite, so it should be fine.

Even towards her other supposed "inconsistency," regarding her leaving series, I don't see it. I can actually relate it to my own life. When I left my previous job, I hated it. So I gave my two weeks notice, I was tempted to just leave, but I wanted one more paycheck because I wanted to make sure that I had enough money to cover my expenses for three months, so I needed that little extra money. A week after my notice, the managers called me into a meeting to try to see if they could make an offer to get me to stay. I took the meeting, but I had no intention, just to hear what they'd say, but I knew in advance that I had no intention of changing my mind. I had to get out of their for my mental health, I didn't even have another job lined up, that's how badly I needed to get away. So when Victoria points out that the producers tried to entice her to stay at the last minute, she says the offered her so much that it would make her the highest paid woman on TV, I see it as the same kind of thing. It doesn't change what she said that when she gave notice two years earlier that she was leaving that she didn't mean it, and was open to staying after all.

Thanks for telling me, I've never read the Barbara Curran book before. The biggest reason is I don't know if it's authorized or not.
 

Seaviewer

Telly Talk Warrior
I think they could have made Pam's reappearance work, if they'd done it when the original series ended. She'd only been gone for what? 4-5 years at that point? I've said before in various hypothetical threads about how would you have ended Dallas, that I would have brought that other actress back as Pam, using the explanation about her supposed fatal disease to explain her absence, say it's in remission and have her, Bobby, and Christopher leave Dallas to spend however much time she has left together away from all the drama. Sure, I agree, it may have been a bit of a reach, but not the most outlandish story for a soap opera.
You're right. If they were serious about a proper ending for Bobby and Pam they could have done it without Victoria.
 
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