Classic Soaps (I'm Still) Watching Another World

[Daniel Avery]

Thank you for this. I was aware of how close the two were, and had been somewhat concerned that Stuart had not said anything publicly about Heche's death. AS doesn't do Instagram or Twitter or any of that, so if she was going to make a public comment, it would be something like this.

Youtube keeps 'suggesting' AW-related videos for me to watch, with or without Heche, so I keep having to dig myself out of whatever rabbit-hole I find myself in. Last night I watched a 1976 episode which featured Mac and Rachel broken up but wanting desperately to reunite. I know it sounds weird, but I love it when Mac and Rachel fight! Those two actors can burn down a set when given the right motivation.

 

[Chris2]

I’m pretty sure all Mac and Rachel did was fight throughout the 70s.

 

[Daniel Avery]

The difference (I think) is that the writers went to the trouble of setting up legitimate reasons for them to argue, offering their differing points of view in character. Too often the writers are instructed to write scenes where "X and Y argue and break up" but no groundwork is laid. The resulting argument therefore lacks "heft," or motivation if you prefer. Mac's pride and Rachel's stubbornness were baked into the cake, and of course there was always Rachel's disapproval of how Mac coddled and spoiled Iris, and their respective pasts that offered lots of "argument material". A good argument can be so cathartic when it is legitimate.

I can't recall the exact period, but I recall Rachel getting all fired up and referring to Mac as an "aging playboy". He shouted "Aging playboy?!" at her and added "You ain't seen nothin' yet!" and stormed out.

 

[Canon]

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[Daniel Avery]

Tough day to be a soap fan.

First KL/Dallas creator David Jacobs passed away, and now Nancy Frangione, AKA the deliciously naughty Cecile dePoulignac from Another World.
‘Another World’ Nancy Frangione Dies Age 70 — Soap Star Cause of Death – TVLine

 

[Jason73]

Tough day to be a soap fan.

First KL/Dallas creator David Jacobs passed away, and now Nancy Frangione, AKA the deliciously naughty Cecile dePoulignac from Another World.
‘Another World’ Nancy Frangione Dies Age 70 — Soap Star Cause of Death – TVLine

I had to jump on here to pay my respects to a character I consider my favorite soap character of all time--and the wonderful actress who played her--Nancy Frangione. I was surprised by how hard her passing hit me. When I racked my brain trying to think who else in the world would possibly understand how sad this is, you were the first person I thought of @Daniel Avery . So here I am looking for someone to commiserate with.

Cecile DePouligniac Frame Cory etc was my gateway drug into soaps. For some reason (I think because my aunts watched it) 9 year old me decided I would watch Another World whenever I was home from school. This was in the early 80's and Cecile, and Nancy's portrayal of her, captivated me. I was enthralled by every scheming, manipulative thing she did and my love of soaps was born thanks to Cecile (and a little bit thanks to the misadventures of Rachel). Nancy could play scheming, pouty, sneaky, bitchy, bitter, snarky, and snobby. When the writers took her character in a more campy, over the top direction, she ran with it and she could also occasionally imbue Cecile with a vulnerability.

By coincidence, I had been watching 1982 episodes prior to learning of Nancy's passing. 82 is the year I first watched and it seems to be a REALLY dreadful period for the show--with the exception of the Blaine/Sandy/Cecile triangle and all the crazy stuff with Cecile and Alma Rudder gaslighting poor Blaine--the first soap storyline that hooked me--followed quickly by Alma's murder, which Cecile was accused of.

RIP Nancy Frangione and Cecile DePouligniac. You TRULY brought so much happiness to my life and I'm thankful 9 year old me was smart enough to appreciate what you brought to the screen. Thank you Daniel, for marking her passing.

You have to love the way Cecile manages to get under Rachel's skin. And I also love how Mac always had a little bit of a soft spot for her.


Daniel--I've been thinking about you a lot lately as I've been watching these early 80's Another World episodes and also because I have finally gotten around to watching Edge of Night and am loving every minute of it.

 

[Daniel Avery]

So nice to see you!!:ex:

Two days before they announced Nancy Frangione had left us, an AW episode popped up in my YT suggestions. It was when Jamie had dumped Cecile and she was trying to seduce Sandy, either to make Jamie jealous or because she had simply moved on to a 'blood' Cory in anticipation of a bigger payday. Whatever the case, she was already in rare form....and then the news dropped, and I was floored that I'd "just seen her". Try as I might, I can't find it now.

I did find one clip in the search that deserves a look, though....call it "the softer side of the Queen of Tanquir"

You may want to look in on me when/if it's Anna Stuart.

 

[Jason73]

Two days before they announced Nancy Frangione had left us, an AW episode popped up in my YT suggestions. It was when Jamie had dumped Cecile and she was trying to seduce Sandy, either to make Jamie jealous or because she had simply moved on to a 'blood' Cory in anticipation of a bigger payday. Whatever the case, she was already in rare form....and then the news dropped, and I was floored that I'd "just seen her".

I LOVE that we were both enjoying Cecile right before Nancy's passing. The AW gods (Douglas Watson and Connie Ford??) were looking out for us.

I did find one clip in the search that deserves a look, though....call it "the softer side of the Queen of Tanquir"

So good--the way Nancy just slid in and out of pathos and empathy and snootiness and humor and back again. And Dano--I just miss that sort of acting on soaps.

I was trying to find the scene where Cecile finds out that the man she thought was her father isn't actually her father. I watched it a year or so ago. I think it happened either at Alma's murder trial or maybe a custody trial for Maggie. I just remember Cecile being very vulnerable in that scene and Frangione playing it really well.

I'm up to summer 82--Alma has gone rogue in her plan to drive Blaine crazy. Sandy is divorcing Cecile and Cecile gave birth to Maggie a few months back. Cecile's mom, Elena, is keeping secrets about Cecile's real father. The handsomest Jamie is still around. Oh and Steve and Rachel are trapped under a building. Does Rachel end up blind at the end of this? The only good thing about bringing Steve back from the dead in the 80's was that it gave Jamie a chance to interact with his father. Canary has been great of course, but I just don't see the point of bringing Steve back and killing him off again.

There's good Cecile and Sandy stuff in the episode I just finished. (Hilarious seeing Cass set foot in Bay City and meet baby Maggie on his first day in the city, given that Cecile will try to pass Maggie off as his daughter in a couple decades.)

I had forgotten that she had also played Tara on AMC. Tara was a nice girl, right?

You may want to look in on me when/if it's Anna Stuart.

After I heard the news of Nancy's passing, my mind went to Windham and Stuart. You can believe I'll be here to commiserate when those sad days come. We'll get through it together. Let's hope those are a long way off.

 

[Jason73]

This Alma Rudder story really is Cecile at her nastiest. I'm relieved that the writers were sensible enough to have Cecile's plan spiral out of control thanks to crazy Alma so that Cecile pays for her wickedness and is able to remain a viable character. Smartly, in less than a year they will pivot to her relationship with Peter and rivalry with Donna. Episodes featuring the Alma story are so hard to come by. I want to see the whole story again so badly! Thank goodness for Eddie Dreueding. The frustrating part is that these episodes probably still exist somewhere in some P&G vault since this was all post-tape wiping era.

I wish this was a full episode. The closing credit crawl shows there were some interesting Cecile scenes. At least we get a glimpse of the creepy doll.

And I guess Rachel didn't end up blind as a result of the building collapse. That must happen next year when she's in the car accident that kills Steve.

 

[Daniel Avery]

The overlap between AW and The Edge of Night in this period (1980-3ish) amuses me as I watch bits and pieces of each. Terry Davis is playing Stacey on AW, having left a brilliant run as April Scott on EON. Maeve McGuire was playing AW's Elena de Poulignac after departing the role of Nicole Drake on EON.* I recently watched the Winter Austen trial on EON (1979?) and the actor who played the judge was Ralph Camargo, father of AW's Victoria Wyndham.

* They recast Nicole with an actress twenty years younger, basically re-christening the matriarch into an ingenue. I LOVE soaps!

The AW gods (Douglas Watson and Connie Ford??) were looking out for us.

Could be. For several years I was calling a vendor rep to place orders at work, only knowing him as "Doug". One day I missed his call and he left a message signed "Doug Watson". I'd never known his last name until then, but it sort of made wacky sense in my life.

 

[Jason73]

Terry Davis is playing Stacey on AW, having left a brilliant run as April Scott on EON.

I literally was discovering this moments before you posted!! April . . . I mean Stacy has just turned up in the September 82 episode I'm watching. And I was just watching Stacy . . . I mean April this morning as she was mourning Draper who "died" in a train crash but actually is just sporting a sexy beard and hanging out with a crazy girl in a farm house. How did I not know Terry Davis was the first Stacy? I know Davis from Santa Barbara where she played snooty Madeline Capwell who ended up being murdered by her husband with a dumbbell. Madeline was such an unlikable snob that it was a revelation seeing Davis be so likable as April.

One day I missed his call and he left a message signed "Doug Watson". I'd never known his last name until then, but it sort of made wacky sense in my life.

:eck:

 

[Daniel Avery]

How about one for the road?

 

[Jason73]

* They recast Nicole with an actress twenty years younger, basically re-christening the matriarch into an ingenue. I LOVE soaps!

I haven't been that impressed with Nicole. All she's done so far is deal with Miles' crazy antics while he was being poisoned and interact a bit with the sexy Derek. She hasn't been in it much since the poisoning story ended.

Last weekend (while I was busy having a hurricane* and an earthquake here in California) I was googling the actor who plays Derek. What a fascinating man.

*Ok--it was just a tropical storm by the time it got to me--but still, it's California! And we had an earthquake in the middle of it!

 

[Jason73]

How about one for the road?

That really brought a smile to my face. I love the Mallorca stuff. What a perfect send off! "You're a b!tch Cecile! You always were and you always will be!" To me, the Mallorca stuff is as quintessentially AW as Rachel/Steve/Alice or Rachel and Janice in the swimming pool. It's just classic AW.

What a great way to sail Cecile off into the sunset (for a year or two) and kick off Cass and Kathleen. The summer that Cecile returns and kidnaps Cass to Tanquir (85 or 86, I think?) was when I became a regular viewer of Another World because we got a VCR around that time. Cecile's return trips to Bay City may have been cases of diminishing returns the further we got away from Mallorca but I'm glad the writers cared about the character enough to let us catch up with her from time to time. I enjoyed her return right after Mac's death, in spite of it being the worst of the Jamies and not the best of Stacys at the time Cecile came back.

 

[Daniel Avery]

I haven't been that impressed with Nicole. All she's done so far is deal with Miles' crazy antics while he was being poisoned and interact a bit with the sexy Derek. She hasn't been in it much since the poisoning story ended.

They seemed to want (through the recast) to make her "Mrs. Miles Cavanaugh" rather than a character with agency of her own. Yes, making her the anchor of the WMON newscast placed her right in the middle of the mysteries and such, but they were pushing Joel Crothers as a front burner hero who needed a damsel to save. There is a sequence early in Jayne Bentzen's run where insane Winter Austen trapped Nicole in the WMON studio and hunted her with a gi-normous pair of scissors that closely resembles the time Carl Hutchins hired a hit man to chase/kill Rachel in the KBAY studio (with the show's actual studio doubling as the local TV station).

Speaking of Derek/Dennis Parker/Wade Nichols, there is a YT video floating around out there that I saw a while back detailing his unique path to stardom. He almost ended up as one of the Village People! I'll probably never find out the answer to my biggest question, though: did the HR folks at Procter and Gamble know of his previous "acting" projects when they hired him? Seems like a conservative (lower-case "c") company like P&G would never have hired a porn star to play a lead role on one of their soaps. Or would they? He does a great job in the role.

On EON, it was said that Tony Craig (Draper Scott) got into a salary dispute with P&G in spring/summer 1981. When he opted to leave, they sent Draper "overseas" with a task force, leaving April adrift. Terry Davis was also very pregnant at the time, so "April left to join her husband" when Terry Davis left on maternity leave....only April and Draper were rarely ever mentioned again. I'm guessing that P&G offered to create a role for Davis on another of their soaps (AW's Stacey) when she was ready to return to work, since it was not her fault that the Draper/April stories ended.

 

[Jason73]

Speaking of Derek/Dennis Parker/Wade Nichols, there is a YT video floating around out there that I saw a while back detailing his unique path to stardom. He almost ended up as one of the Village People! I'll probably never find out the answer to my biggest question, though: did the HR folks at Procter and Gamble know of his previous "acting" projects when they hired him? Seems like a conservative (lower-case "c") company like P&G would never have hired a porn star to play a lead role on one of their soaps. Or would they? He does a great job in the role.

According to the very thorough biography article I read last weekend, the producers were aware:

Larry Engler (puppeteer on ‘The Edge of Night’):

I heard that Dennis’s past as an adult actor had been leaked to the producers, so Dennis took it upon himself to call a meeting with them. He told them about what he’d done. The top producer at the time, Nick Nicholson, told him he was doing a great job and that it didn’t matter. He should just keeping going. Nothing was going to change that.



Richard Posa (Dennis’ brother):

Dennis told me that the producers of ‘’The Edge of Night’ received a few complaints in the early days, because of his XXX past. The producers liked him though and stood by him.



Rob Foy (Production assistant on ‘The Edge of Night’):

The way it was handled was quite secretive. Proctor & Gamble were involved and the rumor was that initially they were unhappy with the situation. But Nick Nicholson evidently stood firm. He was a formidable character: Under his guidance, ‘The Edge of Night’ got only the second Emmy ever given for a daytime drama. He won the day, and Dennis stayed.

And from Sharon Gabet:

Sharon Gabet (Actress on ‘The Edge of Night’):

After that, the producers were quite protective of him. We all knew about his adult film career because the films were frequently running nearby in Times Square at the time! When we first found out about his past, we’d go there and just look at the marquees. We all loved it. We thought it was hilarious.

That was another thing about The Edge of Night: No one got coddled on that show. Nobody. Everybody made fun of everybody. I’ve never laughed so much working in my life like on ‘The Edge of Night’. We really were great friends. Dennis certainly got a lot of teasing by the entire set, but he was always a gentleman. I thought he was such a nice guy.

And the writers would play along too. They’d put the name ‘Wade Nichols’ into the scripts! That was their joke all the time. Maybe it was just for dress rehearsal; I don’t know if it was ever used but it was hysterical.

You could tell when you talked to him about his past that he was so proud of his adult film work. We got a kick out of that. He was not ashamed at all. He felt he did the best he could in every role that he had. He was very humble but very proud of his work. I mean, he was a star! He was a porn star!

The entire article is fascinating and worth a read (and not only for the full frontal pics of Parker). He sounds like an amazing guy. I really admire how unapologetic he was.

Wade Nichols: ‘A Galaxy of Pleasure and Pain’ - His Untold Story - The Rialto Report

Wade Nichols was one of the most recognizable adult film stars of the 1970s. He was also a TV soap star and disco star. His untold story is revealed.

www.therialtoreport.com

On EON, it was said that Tony Craig (Draper Scott) got into a salary dispute with P&G in spring/summer 1981. When he opted to leave, they sent Draper "overseas" with a task force, leaving April adrift. Terry Davis was also very pregnant at the time, so "April left to join her husband" when Terry Davis left on maternity leave....only April and Draper were rarely ever mentioned again. I'm guessing that P&G offered to create a role for Davis on another of their soaps (AW's Stacey) when she was ready to return to work, since it was not her fault that the Draper/April stories ended.

Interesting--I can see why Craig would consider himself worthy of a pay raise. I'm currently in March of 1980 and between Margo's murder trial and the train crash, a lot of the show has revolved around him during this year. Did Davis play Stacy for the entirety of Stacy's first run? Was it just Davis and Edson who played her?

More fun with Cecile: Donna and Cecile were brilliant together and I wish they would have written more on their rivalry in the later years. Stuart, Frangione, Heche and Ford--what power houses. They could do comedy or high drama and make it look easy.

 

[Daniel Avery]

Another Edge mystery solved! And yes, this sounds just like Nicholson, from what I've read of him.

I think they were cultivating Draper to be the Mike Karr replacement when/if they needed to move to the next generation. Ironically, they had been cultivating Adam Drake to be that character, but Donald May also decided to leave them high and dry.

What I'd like to see (but have yet to find) are more of the epic Donna/Cecile banter and fights, esp. the lead-up to the 1920s-themed wedding of Cecile and Peter on the yacht. It was indeed the Clash of the Titans. If Cecile had known how Peter would turn into a bullying creep, she would not have been as keen to marry him. I mean, Peter ended up getting shot in the stables by Raven Whitney! Ooh, I think I'm getting my wires crossed here...

 

[Jason73]

What I'd like to see (but have yet to find) are more of the epic Donna/Cecile banter and fights, esp. the lead-up to the 1920s-themed wedding of Cecile and Peter on the yacht. It was indeed the Clash of the Titans.

I'm about to head into 1983, when the rivalry starts. There aren't a lot of episodes from that year and I think I've already watched most of them, but if I come across any Donna/Cecile moments that seem new to me I will post them here.

If Cecile had known how Peter would turn into a bullying creep, she would not have been as keen to marry him.

Marcus Smythe's version of Peter is the one that I am most familiar with and I couldn't stand Peter at all. I was surprised when a few years ago I watched the first two Peters. Original Peter was charming and nice and sort of a good guy. They should have kept him that way and kept him on the show for longer. He would have been a nice contrast between Donna and train wreck Nicole.

I mean, Peter ended up getting shot in the stables by Raven Whitney! Ooh, I think I'm getting my wires crossed here...

Poor Sharon. Even teenaged me could recognize what a mess the character of Brittany was. She was all over the place. I think Another World wanted her to be Raven 2.0 at first and then morphed her into Peter's victim after they killed off Sally so that she could be paired with Catlan as a viable couple. (If I'm recalling everything correctly, Brittany turned into a pretty weak, watered down character.). Gabet seems to be such a champion of Edge of Night. I love that.

 

[Daniel Avery]

Marcus Smythe's version of Peter is the one that I am most familiar with and I couldn't stand Peter at all. I was surprised when a few years ago I watched the first two Peters. Original Peter was charming and nice and sort of a good guy. They should have kept him that way and kept him on the show for longer. He would have been a nice contrast between Donna and train wreck Nicole.

The second Peter, played by Chris Holder (I think that's his name) was such a contrast visually to Anna Stuart that it was hard for me to picture him as Peter. He'd played one of Nikki Newman's ill-fated husbands on Y&R so he already had good soap skills, but it was just odd. OG Peter and Peter #3 were both dark-haired like Donna, and OG Nicole (AKA Coke-Fiend Nicole) looked like none of them. Of course Marley had a good reason not to look like her "siblings". BTW, Chris Holder ended up in a short-term role on EON in late 1984 playing a nutcase who kidnaps Raven, so the overlap just keeps happening.

 

[Jason73]

I was reading an argument on Facebook today over who was responsible for killing off Frankie Frame. I think it's hilarious that people are arguing over the murder of a fictional character that occurred 24 years ago--but both sides were so adamant in their argument that it made me curious. I thought I had always heard JFP was responsible for that decision. It was suggested that an EP wouldn't make that decision but that a head writer would and that Maggie DePriest was actually responsible. There was a quote from DePriest where she mentioned she didn't write a grisly death when she wrote Frankie's death, so clearly she wrote the death. Is this one murder JFP actually wasn't responsible for? I remember all the talk of it being Donna or Paulina possibly and then it was Frankie because of a focus group or something.

I know this is all (very) old news--I just always had it in my head that it was another reason to not like JFP.

It's funny with all the thousands of deaths that soap writers have penned over the years that Frankie's murder is still so infuriating to fans all these years later. Is it because it's unusual for a popular main character to be killed off in such a violent way? You don't see people still infuriated over Isabella's death on Days or Georgie's* murder on GH or Sally's death on AW or Gillian's death on AMC. Is it because Barret was fired and didn't want to leave, that fans hold such a grudge?


*Georgie's murder is the one that bothers me the most out of all the ones I mentioned (besides Frankie's of course).