Classic Soaps (I'm Still) Watching Another World

Daniel Avery

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I wish I'd been there to put in my 14 cents. I now recall Frankie died in the middle of August.

The buck stops with the EP. She/he is supposed to be involved in every step of the taping process, from approving the scripts to being on set to direct the director if the EP does not like how the scenes are turning out. The EP is also supposed to supervise the editing process, which can shape how the written scenes can play to the viewer. In short, nothing goes to air that she/he isn't okay with. When something goes wrong, the Boss is supposed to take responsibility. So she's the one who should take ultimate blame, since lord knows she never had trouble taking credit for the good things that happened when she was running shows. JFP's attempts to shift blame (even decades later in an interview I read) ring hollow. I'm not allowing MdP to escape criticism, since she should never have written the death scenario that was taped. She lost perspective on who her core audience was (mothers, wives) and displayed insanely bad judgment. Both Maggie DePriest and JFP deserve to have scorn heaped upon them, but JFP was the only one who could have changed the depiction of the murder as it was being staged.

In the interview I read (which might be find-able someplace, but I cannot even recall who confronted her), JFP did take blame for Maureen Bauer on GL (as if she could deny it!), but defiantly said she was not to blame for how Frankie's death was depicted. She even claimed that she had "suggested" that they stage it as a disappearance, giving the opportunity to have her "come back from the dead". Umm, babe if you really wanted that, all you had to do was order your Head Writer to write it that way. If you did not want it to be so graphic. you could have vetoed some of the acting choices AB-M made to make sure it was not a "gentle murder" (AB-M was interviewed afterward and confirmed she decided to be true to Frankie by fighting like hell). The episode did not have to be an hour of Fax stalking her like an animal and making the viewer feel like they were watching a snuff film. The fans of the show had already been battered and bruised by so many choices JFP had made that this became the final straw. It actually might not become so legendary if JFP had not "gotten away with it" (moving on to other soaps as AW died slowly from wounds she inflicted).

You correctly mention how they changed the "final victim" from Anna Stuart to Alice Barrett-Mitchell at the last minute, which had to have left Maggie DePriest furious since it meant rewriting a current plot as well as re-writing the plot trajectories of several other characters (all the Love-Hudsons, all the Frames, Cass, Felicia, etc.). I recall all the 'signs' occurring in the plots that pointed to Donna getting killed off (my blood pressure was off the charts), which spoke to MdP having laid groundwork that would now have to be scrapped. The turn to Frankie ending up with that necklace was poorly staged because it was a last-minute change, and it did not ring true because it was all so random. MdP had re-tooled her Sin Stalker plot from the late 1980s for this story. The part where some thought Donna was the killer---only to have her turn up dead---would mirror the Sin Stalker plot with Greg Houston as the suspect/victim. So once that plot point was changed, everything else afterward bore no resemblance to that long-ago plot. So dePriest loses points for not trying to write something original and instead try to retread one of her plotlines from a previous tenure.
 

Jason73

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I wish I'd been there to put in my 14 cents. I

I wish you had too. It was irritating that someone was defending JFP but then it had me thinking maybe I was wrong. I had stopped watching by then and have staunchly refused to watch the episode in question, so I've never actually seen the death nor do I want to. Barrett-Mitchell is such a likable actress and made Frankie so lovable that I can only imagine how hard it must have been to watch.
n the interview I read (which might be find-able someplace, but I cannot even recall who confronted her), JFP did take blame for Maureen Bauer on GL (as if she could deny it!), but defiantly said she was not to blame for how Frankie's death was depicted. She even claimed that she had "suggested" that they stage it as a disappearance, giving the opportunity to have her "come back from the dead". Umm, babe if you really wanted that, all you had to do was order your Head Writer to write it that way. If you did not want it to be so graphic. you could have vetoed some of the acting choices AB-M made to make sure it was not a "gentle murder" (AB-M was interviewed afterward and confirmed she decided to be true to Frankie by fighting like hell). The episode did not have to be an hour of Fax stalking her like an animal and making the viewer feel like they were watching a snuff film. The fans of the show had already been battered and bruised by so many choices JFP had made that this became the final straw. It actually might not become so legendary if JFP had not "gotten away with it" (moving on to other soaps as AW died slowly from wounds she inflicted).

All of that is sort of mind-blowing to me and I just find it fascinating that its all still being talked about years later. I realize it's only being discussed in soap circles, but still, it was a long time ago. and it's so ardently discussed. Soap fans are the best some times.

I saw the rumors circulating that JFP might be coming to Days because of the mess they are/were in. I'm sure that Marlena and Maggie and Kayla are relieved that hasn't happened so far.

This Facebook page where the discussion took place has been posting Cecile clips--mostly from the later returns even after the return for Mac's death. So many of the clips were unfamiliar to me that it made me realize how spotty my viewing was in the end. I think I was watching ATWT regularly during AW's last few years. There have some amusing clips featuring Cecile and Donna and even one where Cecile meets Morgan that I had never seen before.
 

Daniel Avery

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I think talk of Frankie's death is like a scab we have to pick at every once in a while just to remind ourselves of what pain feels like.

I watched an episode of AW from the custody trial of baby Maggie last night. Stacey put Elena on the stand to denounce her own daughter in order to make sure Sandy got custody. We saw Cass had spent the night at Felicia's, and both had that familiar "cat who ate the canary" look on their faces. I had to ICK ICK ICK right out of that scene [shudders] because knowing they'd had a history as lovers was one thing, but seeing them act all lovey-dovey was like catching your parents making out.
 

Jason73

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I watched an episode of AW from the custody trial of baby Maggie last night. Stacey put Elena on the stand to denounce her own daughter in order to make sure Sandy got custody.

Oh that sounds juicy. That should be coming up for me pretty soon.

We saw Cass had spent the night at Felicia's, and both had that familiar "cat who ate the canary" look on their faces. I had to ICK ICK ICK right out of that scene [shudders] because knowing they'd had a history as lovers was one thing, but seeing them act all lovey-dovey was like catching your parents making out.

I wish you could see how much I'm cringing right now. It really makes you realize what an amazing job those two did depicting platonic best friends.
 

Daniel Avery

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Last year, GH was formulating a story surrounding Liz Webber, a 40-ish character who had become estranged from her parents twenty years ago. Everyone was speculating which veteran soap actors they would cast to play Jeff and Carolyn (the parents). My favorites at the time were Stephen Schnetzer and Anna Stuart, or SS and Alice Barrett-Mitchell. Well no one listens to me. :rolleyes: We ended up with Billy Moses from Falcon Crest and Denise Crosby from Star Trek, and the story fell flat (not because of the actors, but the lousy writing). Cass and Donna could have sold it, though. AS played a doctor on GH for many years in the 1970s, so why not?

YT is an evil entity, by the way. I knew I needed to go to bed but when I looked at the "suggested" videos it was littered with 1983-85 AW videos, and all the thumbnails had Donna Love in them. I ended up watching an early Carl episode, a MacRac reunion episode, and the episode where Sally met Catlin. I'd forgotten how much I liked Peter #1 and Donna's dynamic.
 

Jason73

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Last year, GH was formulating a story surrounding Liz Webber, a 40-ish character who had become estranged from her parents twenty years ago. Everyone was speculating which veteran soap actors they would cast to play Jeff and Carolyn (the parents). My favorites at the time were Stephen Schnetzer and Anna Stuart, or SS and Alice Barrett-Mitchell. Well no one listens to me. :rolleyes: We ended up with Billy Moses from Falcon Crest and Denise Crosby from Star Trek, and the story fell flat (not because of the actors, but the lousy writing). Cass and Donna could have sold it, though. AS played a doctor on GH for many years in the 1970s, so why not?

I like that. And I can see Stuart as Liz's mom. On a Liz related note, I started watching GH again recently after not watching for quite a few years. I was disappointed to see she is with Finn and that Michael Easton is still around. He rubs me the wrong way. I don't get the appeal of him.


In my episodes, Sally is still played by Jennifer Runyon. I love Mary Page Keller's Sally, but I've also been enjoying Jennifer's bitchier, shallower version. One thing I thought was kind of interesting about the 1982 episodes (most things are not interesting in 1982) is that the writers have Liz, her daughter Susan, Sally and Julia all living together at Liz's house. It's not worth losing Pat earlier in the year, but it's kind fun having all those ladies living in the same house. Also, I wish Richard Bekins had never left. His Jamie is such a fun mess. And he's slept with most of the single women in town. He's so much more interesting than the next two Jamies. I know Bekins probably needed a break after how much the show used him, but I wish they could have brought him back, instead of Lau. I wonder if they even reached out to him when they decided to bring the character back.

I'd forgotten how much I liked Peter #1 and Donna's dynamic.

Yes!! It should have stayed that way instead of turning Peter into a creep. Do you know why the first Peter left?
 
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Jason73

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I'm watching Christmas 1982 featuring separate gatherings for the Ewing family (and Quinn and Henrietta), the Matthews (and Jamie) and the Frame/Corys. I'm very curious about all the details of the current Rachel/Steve reunion. They are now living together in the Cory mansion that Mac has given to Rachel. There hasn't been a lot of episodes featuring Steve and Rachel so I don't know how they ended up together. He was with Alice when he returned and then at some point Alice left and he is with Rachel. It seems odd to me that Steve would ever pick Rachel over Alice, so I wish I knew what had happened to break Steve and Alice up and send Alice out of town. This Christmas episode has focused mostly on Mac and Rachel rather than Rachel and Steve so it's obvious they are heading towards a Mac and Rachel reunion. I wonder if that is because the writers already know David Canary is leaving or if the plan was always for Steve to be a temporary road block. Was it Canary's choice to leave? Steve seems to barely be a presence. Were plans changed when they decided to get rid of Alice? The actress playing her at the time of Steve's return (I can't remember which one she was) was not good.

I've seen Peter's first episode now and a few others with him. The actor is just so charismatic and likable and charming and flirtatious. Such a switch from the angry slime ball he ended up becoming.

Quinn: I really like her. It's a shame they had the Sin Stalker kill her. Petronia Paley is such a good actress. And speaking of the Sin Stalker, another of his victims, Maisie the waitress, has appeared in recent episodes. I'd forgotten that she had been with the show for so long. I don't remember her being anything but a supporting character.

This Christmas episode has reminded me of something that I always found unique about AW--while they always had their core families, a lot of focus was on friendships and found families. I like that.

Finally, I just really love how the show keeps me posted on where exactly I am in the hour with their bumpers "stay tuned for the second half," "stay tuned for the conclusion." It's feels so quaint and nostalgic.
 

Daniel Avery

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Re: Michael Easton on GH I think the show likes the running joke of him playing all these different characters. I'm lukewarm on him as an actor, and wish the show would find someone else for Liz, who deserves better.

Meanwhile, back in Bay City I never heard any reason for John Hutton's departure as OG Peter. They did a good job of sorting "easing Peter in" as a supporting character working at Cory Publishing so it's hard to measure just when his contract started (and if the contract simply ended and the actor wanted to move on). I'm watching "suggested videos" out of sequence, so I never know what I'll see. For instance, an episode I just watched had Donna and Peter mention their father. Obviously it's looooong before the show came up with the back-story of his "death" because Donna makes a remark about how much more their father liked her (Donna) than him. I don't think the 1986-7 Peter would have been turned into a jerk if the writers had not needed a lackey for Reginald to treat like garbage.

Re: Richard Bekins--they really did work that poor guy like a pack mule. I don't have the exact number, but they had him appear in an insane number of episodes back-to-back, and keep in mind that part of his tenure is when the show was 90 minutes long. I would not be surprised if he left to recuperate. I think the show liked the idea of Jamie being perpetually late-20s/early-30s, since he kept being recast in that age range. But if they could have brought Bekins back in the late 1990s, it would have completed a "set" since they brought back Sandi Fergsuon and Matt Crane to once again play Amanda and Matthew.

Did you ever watch the show Designated Survivor? The premise was that the President and most of the Cabinet is killed, leaving a low-level Cabinet Secretary having to assume the Presidency. Bekins played the President who gets killed in the Pilot episode.

Rachel/Steve/Alice 2.0 was doomed to fail, since all three actors had been recast. From what I've read, it also fell flat because the writers decided to insult the original Steve/Alice fans by writing this revival as if Steve had never really loved Alice but instead it had been Rachel all along. Anyone who had watched it originally knew better. Writers should know not to tell people what they saw or did not see. At that time, David Canary was just "that guy who used to be on Bonanza" so they had no qualms about firing him when Steve's return didn't work out. Little did they know....
 

Jason73

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I'm lukewarm on him as an actor, and wish the show would find someone else for Liz, who deserves better.

I agree--I've always loved Liz and she deserves way better. I didn't care for Easton on Days or OLTL either. There's just something about his delivery that annoys me.

Meanwhile, back in Bay City I never heard any reason for John Hutton's departure as OG Peter. They did a good job of sorting "easing Peter in" as a supporting character working at Cory Publishing so it's hard to measure just when his contract started (and if the contract simply ended and the actor wanted to move on).

Looking at IMDb his TV work is fairly intermittent and some googling shows he was (and maybe still is) very active in theater. So it seems like maybe he was just happier in the theater world.

Did you ever watch the show Designated Survivor? The premise was that the President and most of the Cabinet is killed, leaving a low-level Cabinet Secretary having to assume the Presidency. Bekins played the President who gets killed in the Pilot episode.

I haven't seen it and didn't know he was in it. He has acting credits from this year. The guy never stops.

From what I've read, it also fell flat because the writers decided to insult the original Steve/Alice fans by writing this revival as if Steve had never really loved Alice but instead it had been Rachel all along.

That's the issue I'm having with it. They were living happily ever after like Steve/Rachel was always endgame and Alice has been shoved off the canvas like she was the spoiler.

At that time, David Canary was just "that guy who used to be on Bonanza" so they had no qualms about firing him when Steve's return didn't work out. Little did they know....

Oh that's right--I was think of him as DAVID CANARY SOAP SUPER STAR, but he hadn't achieved that yet. Near the end of his run on AW he had some good stuff where he learns Rachel has been conspiring with Quinn to infuse Frame Enterprises with money to keep it afloat. I also watched his death--he didn't even get an on screen death scene.

Once I got into 1983 I realized I had already watched all of those not too long ago, so I jumped ahead and watched a few episodes of Rachel with amnesia from the following year. I love the way they played that, with Rachel getting a lot of her past filled in from her doctor, Alice. Rachel being nervous about meeting her children, thinking that her fashion style was old fashioned and wanting to dress like Felicia, and "meeting" Donna for the first time was all very entertaining.

I've now jumped back into 1987. Wish me luck--I always struggle with the Philece Sampler era.
 

Daniel Avery

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I remember the soap mags applauding AW for how they wrote Rachel's "choices" during her amnesia period, basically congratulating them for not having her be the typical, weepy and forlorn amnesia victim.

Like I said, I've been jumping around, mainly because YT suggests stuff from all over the timeline. This morning I watched the episode where Julia Shearer was found murdered. I was sorry I didn't get to see Faith Ford as Julia (she was already "dead" when Marley found her). For some reason I thought Julia had been killed in a parking garage, but they (Julia, boring Ben, Marley, Nancy, Thomasina and....Carter?) had run off to New York without their parents/guardians knowing, and Julia was killed in a hotel room. What made it so engaging (if sad) was how the writers took the time to show extended reaction scenes when all the relevant players found out. Every time Irene Dailey cries onscreen I lose it.

FauxDonna, hmmmm? Well, consider it a trade-off since you'll also see Anne Heche leaping off the screen and into our hearts.
 

Canon

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Think you'll both enjoy this if you haven't already, Linda Dano has chatted with Anna Stuart for the latest episode of her podcast. It's all too short sadly, it seems like Dano and her assistant are putting these together themselves and want a short run time whereas Stuart would have been happy to have chatted on.


There's also an earlier episode with Anna Holbrook, where Dano reveals that at one point she feared Holbrook may have disliked her!
 

Daniel Avery

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The part where she mentions she "was on Guiding Light" and auditioned for AW's Felicia was when she was hired to temporarily play Vanessa Chamberlain on GL while her regular portrayer, Maeve Kinkead, went on maternity leave. That temp role was my first exposure to AS, and since Vanessa was a fussy, snobby rich girl, it may have been a situation where Paul Rauch had seen her playing Vanessa and decided AW ought to have a character like that added to the mix.

Many years later, when Linda Dano was playing Rae Cummings in that crossover thing on all the ABC soaps, Dano fell ill and Stuart played the part on OLTL for several days. I remember thinking Stuart's version of Rae must have been what her Felicia would have been like.
 

Daniel Avery

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Before you leave 1982, @Jason73:

One little tidbit that floored me was their claim that Studio 1 at the NBC Studios (later JC Studios) where AW taped was only 11.500 sf. That's like the square footage of a Walgreen's. But considering they also "reported" that VW won an Emmy when she actually never did, take the voice-overs with a grain of salt.
 

Jason73

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PM Magazine! I forgot about that show! That was wonderful Daniel. Thank you. It was great to see behind the scenes from the era I just left and see some of the personalities. I wish there was more soaps bts stuff from the 70's, 80's and 90's. Just seeing a wide view of the soundstage with the sets was fascinating.

I'm actually mostly enjoying 1987. I like Scott and Cheryl and Vince and Mary and revisiting the Sin Stalker story. I'm not even minding "Donna" too much. I'd forgotten that they brought Thomasina back for Quinn's death. That was nice. I can't stand Adam though. I can't remember how I felt about him when I originally watched but he's so annoying and shouts too much. Jamie is boring but I do enjoy Lisa. Donna just remembered that John (and not a triplet named Scott) was in the picture with the babies that her father had shown her that caused her to turn into Philece Sampler.

But boy, I had forgotten how terrible and awkward the old opening graphics are with the Crystal Gayle song. My favorite of all the openings is the one that Gayle's song replaced, for nostalgic reasons, but I'm ready to ditch these graphics and bring on the new opening.
 

Jason73

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The Sin Stalker storyline is really dragging on. (At least that's how it feels. I don't really know how long it's been going on since these aren't all consecutive episodes.) Killing Maisie and Quinn at least was killing off characters who kind of, sort of mattered. They had a history with the show. Now it's been a while since anyone has died. It's just a lot of stalking and arrests (first Chad, then Chad again, then Tony) and LOTS of Adam shouting at people. I think Nancy is about to be attacked for the second time.

Meanwhile, Michael and Donna and Mitch and Felicia are having a jungle adventure. Felicia has brought along tents that seem to be the size of small houses, so they are jungle trekking in style. I know that I watched John's introduction originally, but I have absolutely no recollection of any of this.

Did the show think that people would be rooting for Adam and MJ to stick together? Because I am 100 percent rooting for her to dump him for her former pimp, Chad. I think that's what ends up happening?

I love Denise Alexander--even when her story is really dull.

Does Jason Frame come soon? Does Vicki come back soon?
 

Daniel Avery

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I vaguely recall the jungle adventure, mostly because you could not have picked two characters (Donna and Felicia) more ill-suited to trekking through a jungle. I mean, Donna would be trying to plug her curling iron into a tree, and Felicia's huge earrings would keep getting snagged on tree branches.

I was not Team Adam/MJ or Team Chad/MJ, since Adam was MJ's supervisor (right?) and Chad...well, there was still that slimy residue they had not managed to wash off. I share your disdain for Adam, or at least the way he was written, but I went along with his Captain Save-A-Ho act because he was a stock character every show had to have. Michael of course was Captain Save-A-Ho on steroids, what with Donna's sudden turn toward Scream Queen.

I think you have a chunk of time before you get to see Jason, since I'm pretty sure he was a Harding Lemay creation. The Lemay creations/resurrections (Josie, Jason, Sharlene, Iris, Vivien) showed up during summer and fall of 1987. As for Vicky, I think Anne Heche picked up the role in June (?) of 1987 (early summer, since I was out of school for the summer when she premiered).
 
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