It Has To Be Said, Pam Was Nothing More Than A Pretty Opportunist.

[southfork88]

I return to Pam... who I consider to be an excellent multifaceted character (positive, but also quite self-centered), played magnificently by Victoria Principal. Among all actors of Dallas, Victoria, along with Barbara Bel Geddes, is worthy of the utmost respect for their autonomy of thought and dignity which does not come down to easy compromises.

Just a few notes on Barbara Gel Geddes vs. Donna Reed.

BBG didn't play a stereotypical character, but her way of playing Miss Ellie, regardless of whether she was the daughter of a Texan landowner or the wife of an oilman. Her New York origins and her theatrical training contributed to giving an original and unusual personality to this matriarch.

It is true that some users in this Forum have also despised DR with very offensive words. She didn't deserve them. Her character, however, had almost nothing in common with the one played by BBG.

And I remember reading several times that Howard Keel preferred Donna to Barbara Bel Geddes.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

I return to Pam... who I consider to be an excellent multifaceted character (positive, but also quite self-centered), played magnificently by Victoria Principal. Among all actors of Dallas, Victoria, along with Barbara Bel Geddes, is worthy of the utmost respect for their autonomy of thought and dignity which does not come down to easy compromises.

Just a few notes on Barbara Gel Geddes vs. Donna Reed.

BBG didn't play a stereotypical character, but her way of playing Miss Ellie, regardless of whether she was the daughter of a Texan landowner or the wife of an oilman. Her New York origins and her theatrical training contributed to giving an original and unusual personality to this matriarch.

It is true that some users in this Forum have also despised DR with very offensive words. She didn't deserve them. Her character, however, had almost nothing in common with the one played by BBG.

And I remember reading several times that Howard Keel preferred Donna to Barbara Bel Geddes.

Thank You for a well-reasoned analysis,

 

[Barbara Fan]

And I remember reading several times that Howard Keel preferred Donna to Barbara Bel Geddes.

He didnt - read his biography - its a good read anyway, full of good stories, ( inc going out with Marilyn Monroe)! and Uncle Lennie gets it wrong again! HK recommended Nancy Olseson

 

[Jock-O-Lantern]

He didnt - read his biography - its a good read anyway, full of good stories, ( inc going out with Marilyn Monroe)! and Uncle Lennie gets it wrong again! HK recommended Nancy Olseson

Thanks for sharing.

 

[LMLDallas78]

JR once referred to Cliff as a moth eaten opportunist.



@southfork88
I'm sure there's plenty here that share your view having the upmost respect for VP and BBG. I wouldn't like to think only these two have acted with dignity though, which is a matter of opinion.

However much I would love to disagree and put forward a different perspective, I fear the back lash on here wouldn't be worth it



@xab
I love how we can put things down to a dream and simply erase them. I had a nightmare about a video and was so relieved to wake up

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

JR once referred to Cliff as a moth eaten opportunist.



@southfork88
I'm sure there's plenty here that share your view having the upmost respect for VP and BBG. I wouldn't like to think only these two have acted with dignity though, which is a matter of opinion.

However much I would love to disagree and put forward a different perspective, I fear the back lash on here wouldn't be worth it



@xab
I love how we can put things down to a dream and simply erase them. I had a nightmare about a video and was so relieved to wake up

You are right. the backlash for merely expressing an opinion that is contrary to the perceived perfections of Miss Ellie and Pam characters is completely
irrational. Anyone who dares...to not be a sycophant is vilified and has their words mispepresented

 

[Spooky Owl!]

Anyone who dares...to not be a sycophant is vilified and has their words mispepresented

Well, my goodness -- then just stop doing it!

It's okay, we'll wait.

 

[southfork88]

Certainly many actors had dignity and perhaps a more open and social character than VP and BBG, but those others could compromise for different reasons.

Larry Hagman and Patrick Duffy often for money, Linda Gray instead to live in harmony with others, although as we learned many years later, she suffered a lot of prevarications.

VP and BBG couldn't stand them.

Thanks to @Barbara Fan for the extract from Howard Keel's biography, but I can definitely remember reading in an interview that he preferred to work with Donna Reed.

Maybe this was a false rumor, I don't know... but these statements were widespread in 1984-1985.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Well, my goodness -- then just stop doing it!

It's okay, we'll wait.

No.

This is an open forum. I have a right to express an opinion within the guidelines.
I will not be deterred by sycophants of characters who I find to be hypocritical and detestable

Aren't you the same person who had objected to various entities trying to cancel speech by those who disagreed?
Ironic much?
What has happened to you?
I never would have expected that from you

Again, I will not be silenced by intolerance, narrow-mindedness and those who feel the need to mispresent what I say.

A further note to those who don't like criticism of the appearance of actors
It is show business. A actor or actresses appearance is a (major) part
of their job. Whether it is fair or unfair is a moot point.
It is simply reality.
Amazing how some can be sensitive to criticism of their favorite character's appearance,
and then turn around and do the same thing to an actor that they do not like.

I am sure that you will respond with some "snarky" comment
Go for it
We are all waiting.

And on another point,
Ratings are a fact
Everything else is subjective.


This thread is about Pam. Let us get back on point

 

[Spooky Owl!]

This is an open forum. I have a right to express an opinion within the guidelines.

But no one's doing that to you.

I will not be deterred by sycophants of characters who I find to be hypocritical and detestable

But not everybody finds the same characters to be hypocritical or detestable. And none of us are being silenced or deterred from expressing their opinion.

So why do you keep asserting that it's happening to you -- because you get a snarky response here and there?

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Certainly many actors had dignity and perhaps a more open and social character than VP and BBG, but those others could compromise for different reasons.

Larry Hagman and Patrick Duffy often for money, Linda Gray instead to live in harmony with others, although as we learned many years later, she suffered a lot of prevarications.

VP and BBG couldn't stand them.

Thanks to @Barbara Fan for the extract from Howard Keel's biography, but I can definitely remember reading in an interview that he preferred to work with Donna Reed.

Maybe this was a false rumor, I don't know... but these statements were widespread in 1984-1985.

Perspectives from Steve Kanaly and Susan Howard would be interesting.
Having played strong supporting characters (who were the underrated strength of the show in its peak years)
their observations would be quite interesting

 

[Spooky Owl!]

VP and BBG couldn't stand them.

Do we know this?

I mean, I can understand it given that Larry and Patrick were having food fights while Barabara was trying to do her break-down-over-Jock's-death scenes.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

But no one's doing that to you.



But not everybody finds the same characters to be hypocritical or detestable. And none of us are being silenced or deterred from expressing their opinion.

So why do you keep asserting that it's happening to you -- because you get a snarky response here and there?

You told me"...stop doing it!"

That seems clear.
And I getting more than the occasional "snarky" response
And not everyone is hero worshipping said characters either. Some of us see them in another light

 

[Spooky Owl!]

You told me"...stop doing it!"

Yes, but "stop doing" what? Playing the victim... You complained that: "Anyone who dares...to not be a sycophant is vilified and has their words misrepresented."

Which sounds like projection from you.

You claim they're doing it to you -- but no one is suppressing your opinions, sycophantic or not, about the characters.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Yes, but "stop doing" what? Playing the victim... You complained that: "Anyone who dares...to not be a sycophant is vilified and has their words misrepresented."

Which sounds like projection from you.

You claim they're doing it to you -- but no one is suppressing your opinions, sycophantic or not, about the characters.

I am not playing the victim, I am simply making an observation.
So because I have respect for an Oscar winning actress and suggest that maybe, possibly her acting has merit,
and I acknowledge that everyone doesn't have to agree... that is not projection
I am bombarded with negative comments about her, but
when I offer a reality based critique of someone(s) who can do no wrong in their minds,
I am vilified. I criticized the way an actress dressed - oh no!
When Emma Samms was cast on Dynasty, there were "snarky' comments about her weight
I don't see people mentioning that.
I am not even a fan of ES, but I respect her acting and charisma and fan base.
It is show business.
Physical appearance and fashion sense is part of the viewing experience
That is simply reality.
Maybe it is relevant to the character, maybe it isn't
And I am not the only one who has commented on that.
I do not object to anyone's taste, I object to having mine
misrepresented and ridiculed
But OK, please continue to be sycophants
I will not be silenced

 

[Spooky Owl!]

I will not be silenced

Silenced from what?

Other people expressing their opinions is not the suppression of yours.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Silenced from what?

Other people expressing their opinions is not the suppression of yours.

You are deflecting and creating a straw man.
Please read what I have said
And you are continually sending me responses that are unnecessary,
and posting laughing emojis.

What have I ever done to you?
I have supported you

I guess you have to have the last word.

I have better things to do than argue this absurd (I didn't say ridiculous, hope you are happy) topic

 

[Spooky Owl!]

You are deflecting and creating a straw man.
Please read what I have said

No deflection. No straw man. And you thanked me yesterday for actually reading your posts (against my better judgment).

There's no hidden wisdom in a review of your posts -- you're manipulating as a "victim" of suppression because you want to suppress the opinions of others, and are frustrated that you can't.

I mean... really?

Nobody wants to suppress your fondness for Donna Reed, and few people have been beating up on her anyway (contrary to your assertions).

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

No deflection. No straw man. And you thanked me yesterday for actually reading your posts (against my better judgment).

There's no hidden wisdom in a review of your posts -- you're manipulating as a "victim" of suppression because you want to suppress the opinions of others, and are frustrated that you can't.

I mean... really?

Nobody wants to suppress your fondness for Donna Reed, and few people have been beating up on her anyway (contrary to your assertions).

I do not want to suppress others' opinions.
That is a straw man.
How tolerant are you when someone does not agree with you? Read your own post
which, BTW does not contain any ground-breaking "wisdom" either
In my analysis of the characters, what did I say that was untrue.
I offered fact-based analysis which may or may not be complete.
Forgive me if I don't have all the info.

Again, what have I ever done to you?
I have supported you
You ridicule me with emojis, persist in sending unflattering responses
I sent a detailed response to someone about how the dynamics of negotiating
probably ensued, and you saw fit to ridicule me with a "snarky response. Why?

I have better things to do than continue this
By all means, sycophants can keep syncophanting

Respond please. You always have to have the last word.
Go for it
Because you are right and the rest of are..not

 

[Spooky Owl!]

And you are continually sending me responses that are unnecessary,
and posting laughing emojis.

What have I ever done to you?
I have supported you

I've never "sent" you anything -- what are you talking about? PMs that never happened?

Or just "laughing" emojis directed at some of your posts?

That said, I was unaware you were supporting me. If so, my mortgage is due, so please get on it.

You ridicule me with emojis, persist in sending unflattering responses

So you only want flattering responses?

Because you are right and the rest of are..not

I didn't realize you qualified as "the rest of us." But okay.

Please cease pretending that your opinions of the characters are being suppressed. Or that you're being silenced -- clearly you are not.