What ultimately killed Dallas?
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Billy Wall
Telly Talk Dream Maker
How many times is this poor woman supposed to keep going back to JR? Remember in the later seasons, Sue Ellen became strong (heck, even Parmelee/Jock praised her for it) in the later seasons. She wasn’t that weak woman who let JR run all over her in the early seasons.
Having JR up and about just an episode after he was shot 3 times at point blank range was a massive mistake, but that’s another topic. Lol
MenaceTheDennis
Telly Talk Member
Some posters on here think Barbara being replaced or even Jim Davis dying was the beginning of the end. I have to disagree. I feel all these seasons are extremely watchable and entertaining before Bobby being hit by the car. I feel bringing Duffy back and making an entire season a dream was a big mistake in retrospect. It really undermined the shows credibility. I felt they cheated their way out of his death and the post dream season is a mixed bag. It still felt like Dallas, but the cracks were getting wider. Victoria leaving for good and the poor casting and writing sealed the shows fate.
Taylor Bennett Jr.
Telly Talk Winner
I feel strongly that the lack of a SoapChat or TellyTalk back in those days led directly to the show’s tragic downfall. Look at how they screwed up in the absence of our sage guidance!!
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tommie
Telly Talk Hero
I'd argue that Jim Davis' unfortunate passing probably helped the show in the long run - it pretty much forced the writers to change the status quo and I think this is often the issue with shows once cast members start leaving. The showrunners doesn't want to change the status quo, so instead of trying to think of creative ways to go forward they end up putting in replacement characters (that are never as good as the originals) to try and keep it. Jock's death if anything forced them out of getting stuck in a rut which fueled another bunch of decent seasons.
pete lashmar
Telly Talk Addict
Absolutely, the battle for control of Ewing Oil after Jock's will is read was one of the best ideas they ever had. From that one single idea came a fantastic spider's web of sub plots which nearly destroyed just about every character's relationship. Brilliant writing and plotting there.
Jimmy Todd
Telly Talk Mega Star
Jock's web even encompassed a suburb in California. Gary's family ties and later inheritance is what put him in the crosshairs of a certain blue eyed she-devil and led to seasons of plotlines.
Barbara Fan
Admin
Sad to say it but Jims Davis sad death contributed to some of the best Dallas storylines over the fight for EO, the battle with Bobby and JR for the company and Miss Ellie going to court, s5 original of Dallas was brilliant - writing and acting
For me Dallas was an ensemble show, and it was the CORE cast who made it #1 in the world
It wasnt the Larry and Patrick show, although it became that and it was weak as a result
One of the main reasons viewers switched off and I know a lot of people who did was the resolution to the dream season and bringing back Bobby ewing
Friends said it lacked any credibility and felt cheated by it ... and switched off
For me Dallas was an ensemble show, and it was the CORE cast who made it #1 in the world
It wasnt the Larry and Patrick show, although it became that and it was weak as a result
One of the main reasons viewers switched off and I know a lot of people who did was the resolution to the dream season and bringing back Bobby ewing
Friends said it lacked any credibility and felt cheated by it ... and switched off
Ollie james
Telly Talk Active Member
Spot on dream nonsense killed it for me.
CeeCee72
Telly Talk Star
Oh, I agree they shouldn't have had SE go BACK to JR again, I just think it was a bad idea to break them up with such a weak story after two seasons of watching them reconcile.
Angela Channing
Telly Talk Veteran
Of the choices on offer, I would say the lack of vision killed Dallas. Characters and storylines were not allowed to evolve sufficiently to keep the show fresh and interesting. For example, FOUR divorced couples were made to remarry (Gary/Valene, JR/Sue Ellen, Lucy/Mitch and Bobby/Pam). One would be unusual in a single family but four was ridiculous. Contrast that with Knots Landing, when Gary and Valene divorced in that show they both went on to marry different people and their new relationships were the source of many of the shows best storylines.
Luke_Krebbs_Ewing
Telly Talk Champion
The Winger Tramp!
I think the decline of Dallas was a factor of different circumstances which culminated in the show losing its way.
Dropping Barbara Bel Geddes and recasting Miss Ellie with Donna Reed was the first mistake.
Listening to and taking on board Patrick Duffy's request to kill his character off on screen was the second mistake.
The third and most damaging of all was the explanation for Bobby's resurrection from the dead. Writing off a whole season as a dream of Pam's is ultimately what ruined the shows popularity in the eyes of the viewers.
The next mistake was following the departure of Victoria Principal the writers did a character assassination on Pamela Barnes Ewing.
I'm not disputing the fact that although Dallas tried to compensate with new characters some of them just weren't up to standard. Case in point April Stevens, she started out as a gold digger out to get what she could. By season eleven following the departure of Victoria Principal the writers mellowed her character to make her the new love interest for Bobby. By season twelve she was all sweetness and light in her continued on off relationship with Bobby which dragged on into season thirteen!
The last couple of seasons tried to give the veteran stars more of a focus like the Clayton and Ellie Murder She Wrote storyline. As entertaining as this storyline was with hindsight it's a bit out of place in Dallas.
So in summation what ultimately killed Dallas. Well, apart from the Miss Ellie recast which was questionable the writing didn't do the show any favours. Especially the explanation for Bobby's return from the dead. The contrived rehashing of storylines used before meant that Dallas was burnt out creatively. Trying to rejuvenate the show with new characters and actors didn't work.
The show was a victim of its own success but I honestly think Lenny Katzman was burnt out creatively. A new Executive Producer might've been able to turn the shows fortunes around but again with hindsight the show itself had maybe just run its course.
Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
It really was. I recall reading in the USAToday in the early summer of 1984 that they were re-casting Miss Ellie, and I felt kind of sick. And indeed it cast a pall over the 84/85 season, an otherwise good year. But I had no idea that that was just the beginning...
But we started in with the "damnable Donna Reed" jokes, said with BBG's inflection, right away.
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Seaviewer
Telly Talk Warrior
I voted writing.
Everything else could have been overcome.
New producers wouldn't have mattered if they'd known what they were doing. (could have been an improvement).
Plenty of shows have seen massive cast changes without a drop in quality or popularity (see M*A*S*H).
It was the campy, lacklustre or just plain silly storylines that finally killed interest.
Everything else could have been overcome.
New producers wouldn't have mattered if they'd known what they were doing. (could have been an improvement).
Plenty of shows have seen massive cast changes without a drop in quality or popularity (see M*A*S*H).
It was the campy, lacklustre or just plain silly storylines that finally killed interest.
Luke_Krebbs_Ewing
Telly Talk Champion
It really was. I recall reading in the USAToday in the early summer of 1984 that they were re-casting Miss Ellie, and I felt kind of sick. And indeed it cast a pall over the 84/85 season, an otherwise good year. But I had no idea that that was just the beginning...
But we started in with the "damnable Donna Reed" jokes, said with BBG's infection, right away.
I have to say though that Donna Reed was just as much a victim as Barbara Bel Geddes was.
The treatment that she got and the way that she was let go was a disgrace.
I'm glad she sued Lorimar for breach of contract. Sadly she passed away from cancer mere months later after settling the lawsuit out of court.
I hope Lorimar were proud of themselves. They treated both actresses abominably unfortunately it cost one of them her life!
Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
I have to say though that Donna Reed was just as much a victim as Barbara Bel Geddes was.
The treatment that she got and the way that she was let go was a disgrace.
I'm glad she sued Lorimar for breach of contract. Sadly she passed away from cancer mere months later after settling the lawsuit out of court.
I hope Lorimar were proud of themselves. They treated both actresses abominably unfortunately it cost one of them her life!
Oh, absolutely. Reed likely would have lost the suit, actually, but Lorimar settled to get it out of the press and to avoid the legal expenses (which likely would have surpassed the settlement).
But over the years, they tried to turn BBG into the bad guy, claiming that she'd left the show in a fit of artistic snootery and then called the producers after jealously seeing another actress in her role. But Barbara was actually fired when she asked for a raise (her contract was up) and a reduced work week (she'd had heart surgery the year before) at the same time... And she didn't go to Larry for help.
In fact, Reed was cut back in her scenes very quickly as the producers realized it wasn't working -- and then they quietly called Bel Geddes and asked her to come back.
So, yes, both actresses were mistreated.
Luke_Krebbs_Ewing
Telly Talk Champion
Oh, absolutely. Reed likely would have lost the suit, actually, but Lorimar settled to get it out of the press and to avoid the legal expenses (which likely would have surpassed the settlement).
But over the years, they tried to turn BBG into the bad guy, claiming that she'd left the show in a fit of artistic snootery and then called the producers after jealously seeing another actress in her role. But Barbara was actually fired when she asked for a raise (her contract was up) and a reduced work week (she'd had heart surgery the year before) at the same time... And she didn't go to Larry for help.
In fact, Reed was cut back in her scenes very quickly as the producers realized it wasn't working -- and then they quietly called Bel Geddes and asked her to come back.
So, yes, both actresses were mistreated.
I'm probably one of the few Dallas fans who actually liked Donna Reed as Miss Ellie. I thought she gave a lovely performance in the role.
Don't get me wrong I love Barbara in the role too it's just Lorimar executives should have worked with Barbara to come to a compromise rather than letting her go. Donna shouldn't be blamed in any way for taking the role over from her. Lorimar made a big mistake but it was their fault and had nothing to do with the actresses.
So sad that Donna passed away from cancer not long after. May she Rest In Dallas Heaven Peacefully.
Barbara Fan
Admin
A million dollars plus for being awful! Thats a good pay off - People get sacked in every walk of life, but most dont get that much money,
Id take that any day for being really dire in my job.
pete lashmar
Telly Talk Addict
I agree with your post, however, the public humiliation must have been terrible for her at the end of her career.
Ellie should never have been re-cast in the first place, I think we all agree with that. Producers should have stalled and waited. The question is, would BBG have returned if the role hadn't been taken by Donna Reed or anyone else?